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> and best to be avoided In any quantity? Prove it The problem is everything is a poison in quantity. Moderation is key with anything. The agenda was clearly

> and best to be avoided In any quantity? Prove it The problem is everything is a poison in quantity. Moderation is key with anything. The agenda was clearly indicated. Please reread my parent post, Reduce alcohol consumption. We consume many extremely dangerous poisons throughout the day and there is not a ton of research of the effects of those molecules. Or there is and almost no follow up action.

theNJR 8y ago
I guess my point is the risk of alcohol consumption is incredibly high and the reward is incredibly low. It’s an irrational game we play (myself included, my wife and I will surely share a bottle of wine tonight at dinner).
- headShrinker 8y ago
  I get your point but like it or not alcohol is very complex and has many benefits as well as deficits. What organizations are doing now to alcohol with their studies is the equivalent of what people did to marijuana in the 40s and 50s. They decided alcohol was bad and then they went about producing propaganda and attributing science fortify their claims. In limited quantities alcohol has been shown to improve sleep, reduce stress, thin blood, and increase social behaviors. All of these are huge markers for life longevity and lower mortality. If you’re really concerned about poisons and risk factors you would look at the American diet and realize just what havoc it’s wreaking on its population, i.e. diabetes, Alzheimer’s disease, cancer, and heart disease. Statistically you will likely die of one of them
  - theNJR 8y ago
    Alcohol DESTROYS sleep. You wont like any of the studies that google comes up with, so do what I did. Buy an Oura ring, get your baseline sleep data, then have just two glasses of wine and see what happens. It's crazy what just a little alcohol does to the quality of your sleep. Any increase in social behaviors are vastly outweighed by anti-social behavior. I agree with you on stress reduction but that is a dangerous, dangerous game.
    - headShrinker 8y ago
      In limited quantities it can be a sleep ad. Anti-social is drinking too much. Stop conflating over drinking affects with moderate drinking affects. > DESTROYS Stop with the hyperbole. No it doesn’t and google doesn’t bring up good sound science, it brings up clickbait, “experts”, and tons of hearsay/case study. Real science on moderate drinking is hard to perform, because there are so many other factors at play..... such as genetics, diet, exercise, smoking, air pollution, water pollution, antibiotics, The proliferation of sugar and refined grains, the over use of pharmaceuticals, persistent inorganic compounds, insecticides, herbicides, fertilizers, growth hormones, and radiation. But concentrate on negative aspects of alcohol because it seems to fit your agenda. Meanwhile there are millions of happy people who have good friends, sleep well, have a great job, eat healthy, have decent monetary stream and can have a drink or two without turning in to a sloppy abusive mess. People who drink alcohol in moderation tend with live longer than abstinent sober people... how do I know that? I googled it
      - theNJR 8y ago
        While alcohol will help put you to sleep (so will a concussion) it inhibits the restorative function of sleep. (1,2,3) I’m all for the hedonistic rationalization for alcohol. We all need a release. But it is disingenuous to say alcohol has any positive effects beyond that. It is no different than sugar in that regard. My Saturday night cheat meal is filled with both, and I always look forward to it. But I don’t try and pretend that it’s in any way good for me (beyond psychological). To that end, I completly agree with you that there are plenty of people who enjoy a few drinks without any real damage. I'm saying classify alchohol for what it it. The tobacco and sugar (4,5) lobbies love to pretend that they are something which they are not to sway public opinion. That is dangerous to society. 1. https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1111/acer.12006 https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1111/acer.12006 2. https://www.amazon.com/Why-We-Sleep-Unlocking-Dreams/dp/1501144316 https://www.amazon.com/Why-We-Sleep-Unlocking-Dreams/dp/1501... 3. https://peterattiamd.com/matthewwalker1/ https://peterattiamd.com/matthewwalker1/ 4. http://sugarscience.ucsf.edu/sugar-papers-reveal-industry-role-in1970s-dental-program.html http://sugarscience.ucsf.edu/sugar-papers-reveal-industry-ro... 5. https://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2015/08/09/coca-cola-funds-scientists-who-shift-blame-for-obesity-away-from-bad-diets/ https://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2015/08/09/coca-cola-funds-sc...
- winchling 8y ago
  Yes, it can be. But it can also be more complicated than that. Reducing the effects of alcohol to its direct impact on health is just that: reductionist. Then drawing moral conclusions from it, as many readers of such reports do, is a fallacy. >my wife and I will surely share a bottle of wine tonight at dinner For example, many people will have found wives because of alcohol, which acts as a 'social lubricant'. Having a wife is good for one's health, etc.
scotty79 8y ago
Why don't you voluntarily consume benzene in moderation? Because you don't want cancer. Same with alcohol.

theNJR 8y ago

I guess my point is the risk of alcohol consumption is incredibly high and the reward is incredibly low. It’s an irrational game we play (myself included, my wife and I will surely share a bottle of wine tonight at dinner).

headShrinker 8y ago
I get your point but like it or not alcohol is very complex and has many benefits as well as deficits. What organizations are doing now to alcohol with their studies is the equivalent of what people did to marijuana in the 40s and 50s. They decided alcohol was bad and then they went about producing propaganda and attributing science fortify their claims. In limited quantities alcohol has been shown to improve sleep, reduce stress, thin blood, and increase social behaviors. All of these are huge markers for life longevity and lower mortality. If you’re really concerned about poisons and risk factors you would look at the American diet and realize just what havoc it’s wreaking on its population, i.e. diabetes, Alzheimer’s disease, cancer, and heart disease. Statistically you will likely die of one of them
- theNJR 8y ago
  Alcohol DESTROYS sleep. You wont like any of the studies that google comes up with, so do what I did. Buy an Oura ring, get your baseline sleep data, then have just two glasses of wine and see what happens. It's crazy what just a little alcohol does to the quality of your sleep. Any increase in social behaviors are vastly outweighed by anti-social behavior. I agree with you on stress reduction but that is a dangerous, dangerous game.
  - headShrinker 8y ago
    In limited quantities it can be a sleep ad. Anti-social is drinking too much. Stop conflating over drinking affects with moderate drinking affects. > DESTROYS Stop with the hyperbole. No it doesn’t and google doesn’t bring up good sound science, it brings up clickbait, “experts”, and tons of hearsay/case study. Real science on moderate drinking is hard to perform, because there are so many other factors at play..... such as genetics, diet, exercise, smoking, air pollution, water pollution, antibiotics, The proliferation of sugar and refined grains, the over use of pharmaceuticals, persistent inorganic compounds, insecticides, herbicides, fertilizers, growth hormones, and radiation. But concentrate on negative aspects of alcohol because it seems to fit your agenda. Meanwhile there are millions of happy people who have good friends, sleep well, have a great job, eat healthy, have decent monetary stream and can have a drink or two without turning in to a sloppy abusive mess. People who drink alcohol in moderation tend with live longer than abstinent sober people... how do I know that? I googled it
    - theNJR 8y ago
      While alcohol will help put you to sleep (so will a concussion) it inhibits the restorative function of sleep. (1,2,3) I’m all for the hedonistic rationalization for alcohol. We all need a release. But it is disingenuous to say alcohol has any positive effects beyond that. It is no different than sugar in that regard. My Saturday night cheat meal is filled with both, and I always look forward to it. But I don’t try and pretend that it’s in any way good for me (beyond psychological). To that end, I completly agree with you that there are plenty of people who enjoy a few drinks without any real damage. I'm saying classify alchohol for what it it. The tobacco and sugar (4,5) lobbies love to pretend that they are something which they are not to sway public opinion. That is dangerous to society. 1. https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1111/acer.12006 https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1111/acer.12006 2. https://www.amazon.com/Why-We-Sleep-Unlocking-Dreams/dp/1501144316 https://www.amazon.com/Why-We-Sleep-Unlocking-Dreams/dp/1501... 3. https://peterattiamd.com/matthewwalker1/ https://peterattiamd.com/matthewwalker1/ 4. http://sugarscience.ucsf.edu/sugar-papers-reveal-industry-role-in1970s-dental-program.html http://sugarscience.ucsf.edu/sugar-papers-reveal-industry-ro... 5. https://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2015/08/09/coca-cola-funds-scientists-who-shift-blame-for-obesity-away-from-bad-diets/ https://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2015/08/09/coca-cola-funds-sc...
winchling 8y ago
Yes, it can be. But it can also be more complicated than that. Reducing the effects of alcohol to its direct impact on health is just that: reductionist. Then drawing moral conclusions from it, as many readers of such reports do, is a fallacy. >my wife and I will surely share a bottle of wine tonight at dinner For example, many people will have found wives because of alcohol, which acts as a 'social lubricant'. Having a wife is good for one's health, etc.

scotty79 8y ago

Why don't you voluntarily consume benzene in moderation? Because you don't want cancer. Same with alcohol.