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It's saying focus on issues mostly out of your control (inflation). I'd prefer to focus on the things that are in my control. I agree that some level of indulg

It's saying focus on issues mostly out of your control (inflation). I'd prefer to focus on the things that are in my control. I agree that some level of indulgence is okay, obviously this is a balance. Everyone has to figure out what they're comfortable with here, but some people we know may have become way too comfortable and complacent yet still want to complain about their financial situation. These are the people who need to figure out why and how to adjust their behavior.

DoreenMichele 8y ago
When I was homeless and going to Starbucks, I used to watch people get $60 worth of takeout coffee on a Saturday morning. Family was coming over. Everyone needed a cup. But no one tells well-off people to cut back on buying $5 cups of coffee by the dozen. No one suggests that if they saved that money, they could have two or three million more and, clearly, that's the morally correct thing to do. No one is saying coffee consumption is the root cause of terrorist attacks and calling for coffee abolition. No one is saying coffee is generally some kind of moral failing. It's apparently just a moral failing if you are struggling financially. And then you really need to quit it, you bad person you. This whole "Your coffee is the problem!" narrative is just judgy, moralizing nonsense. Why is it focused on expensive coffee in specific? Why not candy bars on your work break? Or the high cost of participating in the annual insanity we call Christmas? Because expensive coffee bought and consumed publicly is conspicuous consumption, something that is a pecking order signal of being one of The Haves. So The Haves are offended by The Have Nots participating. That's part of what this article is criticizing. Let The Have Nots have a small luxury here and there and quit picking on them over it. Geez. Personally, I mostly stopped doing Christmas (and Halloween) years ago. It's not obvious because I'm so fucking poor that no one expects me to buy them presents. But if you want to start a campaign to tell America that our modern Christmas habits are one of the roots of all financial evil in the world, I will happily promote your campaign. I'm sure you will be pelted with rotten tomatoes, because now you are also being judgy of the spending habits of The Haves, but I will support your right to subject yourself to that.
- Zenbit_UX 8y ago
  Agreed on all counts. What I find the most distasful is when people make it to the top of the pyramid, look down, and scream advice at those below. Some do it to assuage their guilt, some to raise themselves further above the rabble, and others - whom I despise the most - decide to profit from their status by selling their "wisdom".
- esotericn 8y ago
  This all seems very hyperbolic to me. You're painting it as being a matter of judging rather than useful, lived advice. For the first five years of my adult life I wouldn't have even considered spending $5 on a coffee, or a take out sandwich, or whatever. It felt like a ridiculous sum of money. When I visit parts of the UK that aren't awash with wealth, it still does. I genuinely did think of it through the lens of - not doing that meant that I could quite rapidly save a month's rent, then a few months' rent, and so on. Would it make me a millionaire? No. Certainly not in isolation. But it would break my fall if I were to become unemployed, temporarily ill, etc. And that initial spark of starting to save, having a buffer, not going homeless if I lost my job for a month or two or six, was an essential ingredient in me becoming what you seem to call 'The Haves'. $5 a day for 5 years is over $9K. Non-inflation adjusted. You could stick it under a mattress and that's still six months rent here in London or a _year_ if you share a flat. It's genuinely a large amount of money. If I'd spent my whole life chucking money at everything that came my way I'd still be poor because I would never have been able to risk switching jobs, moving, I very well could have ended up homeless in periods when I left work for a while, etc. Living paycheck to paycheck is basically suicide. You have to make hay whilst the sun shines. Until I had a decent amount saved I essentially did not have discretionary income. I felt it was frivolous. That has worked out for me and I see no reason why it wouldn't work out for others; as such I believe expressing my opinion to be useful advice, and it is rather odd to have that lived experience be painted as "moralizing".

DoreenMichele 8y ago

When I was homeless and going to Starbucks, I used to watch people get $60 worth of takeout coffee on a Saturday morning. Family was coming over. Everyone needed a cup. But no one tells well-off people to cut back on buying $5 cups of coffee by the dozen. No one suggests that if they saved that money, they could have two or three million more and, clearly, that's the morally correct thing to do. No one is saying coffee consumption is the root cause of terrorist attacks and calling for coffee abolition. No one is saying coffee is generally some kind of moral failing. It's apparently just a moral failing if you are struggling financially. And then you really need to quit it, you bad person you. This whole "Your coffee is the problem!" narrative is just judgy, moralizing nonsense. Why is it focused on expensive coffee in specific? Why not candy bars on your work break? Or the high cost of participating in the annual insanity we call Christmas? Because expensive coffee bought and consumed publicly is conspicuous consumption, something that is a pecking order signal of being one of The Haves. So The Haves are offended by The Have Nots participating. That's part of what this article is criticizing. Let The Have Nots have a small luxury here and there and quit picking on them over it. Geez. Personally, I mostly stopped doing Christmas (and Halloween) years ago. It's not obvious because I'm so fucking poor that no one expects me to buy them presents. But if you want to start a campaign to tell America that our modern Christmas habits are one of the roots of all financial evil in the world, I will happily promote your campaign. I'm sure you will be pelted with rotten tomatoes, because now you are also being judgy of the spending habits of The Haves, but I will support your right to subject yourself to that.

Zenbit_UX 8y ago
Agreed on all counts. What I find the most distasful is when people make it to the top of the pyramid, look down, and scream advice at those below. Some do it to assuage their guilt, some to raise themselves further above the rabble, and others - whom I despise the most - decide to profit from their status by selling their "wisdom".
esotericn 8y ago
This all seems very hyperbolic to me. You're painting it as being a matter of judging rather than useful, lived advice. For the first five years of my adult life I wouldn't have even considered spending $5 on a coffee, or a take out sandwich, or whatever. It felt like a ridiculous sum of money. When I visit parts of the UK that aren't awash with wealth, it still does. I genuinely did think of it through the lens of - not doing that meant that I could quite rapidly save a month's rent, then a few months' rent, and so on. Would it make me a millionaire? No. Certainly not in isolation. But it would break my fall if I were to become unemployed, temporarily ill, etc. And that initial spark of starting to save, having a buffer, not going homeless if I lost my job for a month or two or six, was an essential ingredient in me becoming what you seem to call 'The Haves'. $5 a day for 5 years is over $9K. Non-inflation adjusted. You could stick it under a mattress and that's still six months rent here in London or a _year_ if you share a flat. It's genuinely a large amount of money. If I'd spent my whole life chucking money at everything that came my way I'd still be poor because I would never have been able to risk switching jobs, moving, I very well could have ended up homeless in periods when I left work for a while, etc. Living paycheck to paycheck is basically suicide. You have to make hay whilst the sun shines. Until I had a decent amount saved I essentially did not have discretionary income. I felt it was frivolous. That has worked out for me and I see no reason why it wouldn't work out for others; as such I believe expressing my opinion to be useful advice, and it is rather odd to have that lived experience be painted as "moralizing".