4 ms·

So, one thing that's broken about traffic is the distribution of population in low-density vs. high-density areas. The short version is that low-density areas

So, one thing that's broken about traffic is the distribution of population in low-density vs. high-density areas. The short version is that low-density areas are denser than they look, and high-density areas aren't dense enough. For example, if you click on a single-family home and look at the population, there will be over a dozen people living there (TBH, I forgot the exact numbers, but it's way more than a single family's worth of people)! But if you click on a giant skyscraper, there's nothing even close to what would fit in that building if it existed in real life. This has two unfortunate effects: * The suburbs need more public transit than you think they'll need. Once you hit 50k people or so, you'll be hurting for transit badly. "But I'm building low-density housing with a street hierarchy, it works fine in real life, so why are my roads clogged in the game?" Yeah but in real life you're not cramming a dozen people into every single-family home. * On the other hand, you can get away with building dense downtown areas with much less transit than would be required in real life. And yes, there are mods to realistically balance population. If you run these mods, you'll have something much more realistic: the suburbs don't really need transit, but if you build any high-density at all, you'll need to get a good transit network up and running ASAP.

thatfrenchguy 8y ago
> * The suburbs need more public transit than you think they'll need. Once you hit 50k people or so, you'll be hurting for transit badly. "But I'm building low-density housing with a street hierarchy, it works fine in real life, so why are my roads clogged in the game?" Yeah but in real life you're not cramming a dozen people into every single-family home. One could argue some cities have low-density housing next to transit though (like Berlin, or Paris). It does have the disadvantage of making metros too easy though, so commuter rail is almost never done because it is too hard to integrate to a city.
- distances 8y ago
  My experience with C:S heavy rail transit is that it doesn't work well with the current simulation: it seems that the cims take the shortest route even if the slightly longer train would be much faster due to fewer stops abd less congestion.
zepearl 8y ago
I agree and I'd like to add that (not related to traffic nor density but just pure spread of population density), from what I saw, there doesn't seem to be in CS (Cities Skylines) any relation between low-density & high-density areas, meaning that I can start right away building high-density areas with no in/direct realtime/historical impact of any kind. We can (proably should?) debate about how these mechanics should work, but I think that it must be true that any city needs in some percentage both areas (e.g. as well the extreme being built now "on demand" for the World Cup in Qatar - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lusail https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lusail ) must need both, or maybe not if they modeled the city based on CS haha. I think that I could have similar points as well for the "education" in CS - I never (still don't know) if the elementary schools that I place are a foundation for people that will then go later to College and/or University - I still place them because I personally believe in the scala Elementary=>maybe_College=>maybe_University, but who knows... . (ok, this boils down mainly to a lack of transparency/informations for the user, independently if what CS does is good or wrong from the point of view of the user)
- amyjess 8y ago
  So, according to the Cities: Skylines wiki [0], cims who move into high-density residential areas are younger and less likely to procreate than cims who move into low-density residential. That's an interesting way to differentiate them, but it's also something that's very specific to present-day America. And middle-class America, at that. Kind of odd that Skylines is developed by a Finnish company and published by a Swedish one, given how US-centric that model is. I've also written elsewhere in this thread about how Skylines doesn't have a concept of class stratification, either, and that's a problem: the only way to create neighborhoods with distinct class implications (e.g. the ghetto) is to use the RICO mod and plop buildings directly. There's no real concept of medium-density, either: the closest it comes is to zone high-density and put it in a district with the High Rise Ban ordinance. Or, again, use RICO. Oh, and growables are limited to no more than 4x4 tiles... if you want bigger buildings (e.g. a sprawling suburban apartment complex), your only option is RICO. [0] https://skylines.paradoxwikis.com/Zoning https://skylines.paradoxwikis.com/Zoning
  - 8y ago

thatfrenchguy 8y ago

> * The suburbs need more public transit than you think they'll need. Once you hit 50k people or so, you'll be hurting for transit badly. "But I'm building low-density housing with a street hierarchy, it works fine in real life, so why are my roads clogged in the game?" Yeah but in real life you're not cramming a dozen people into every single-family home. One could argue some cities have low-density housing next to transit though (like Berlin, or Paris). It does have the disadvantage of making metros too easy though, so commuter rail is almost never done because it is too hard to integrate to a city.

distances 8y ago
My experience with C:S heavy rail transit is that it doesn't work well with the current simulation: it seems that the cims take the shortest route even if the slightly longer train would be much faster due to fewer stops abd less congestion.

zepearl 8y ago

I agree and I'd like to add that (not related to traffic nor density but just pure spread of population density), from what I saw, there doesn't seem to be in CS (Cities Skylines) any relation between low-density & high-density areas, meaning that I can start right away building high-density areas with no in/direct realtime/historical impact of any kind. We can (proably should?) debate about how these mechanics should work, but I think that it must be true that any city needs in some percentage both areas (e.g. as well the extreme being built now "on demand" for the World Cup in Qatar - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lusail https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lusail ) must need both, or maybe not if they modeled the city based on CS haha. I think that I could have similar points as well for the "education" in CS - I never (still don't know) if the elementary schools that I place are a foundation for people that will then go later to College and/or University - I still place them because I personally believe in the scala Elementary=>maybe_College=>maybe_University, but who knows... . (ok, this boils down mainly to a lack of transparency/informations for the user, independently if what CS does is good or wrong from the point of view of the user)

amyjess 8y ago
So, according to the Cities: Skylines wiki [0], cims who move into high-density residential areas are younger and less likely to procreate than cims who move into low-density residential. That's an interesting way to differentiate them, but it's also something that's very specific to present-day America. And middle-class America, at that. Kind of odd that Skylines is developed by a Finnish company and published by a Swedish one, given how US-centric that model is. I've also written elsewhere in this thread about how Skylines doesn't have a concept of class stratification, either, and that's a problem: the only way to create neighborhoods with distinct class implications (e.g. the ghetto) is to use the RICO mod and plop buildings directly. There's no real concept of medium-density, either: the closest it comes is to zone high-density and put it in a district with the High Rise Ban ordinance. Or, again, use RICO. Oh, and growables are limited to no more than 4x4 tiles... if you want bigger buildings (e.g. a sprawling suburban apartment complex), your only option is RICO. [0] https://skylines.paradoxwikis.com/Zoning https://skylines.paradoxwikis.com/Zoning
- 8y ago