3 ms·

Do we know how ICE asked for these records? Because, from everything else I've ever seen about law enforcement making such requests, there's nothing nice about

by Frondo 8y ago

Do we know how ICE asked for these records? Because, from everything else I've ever seen about law enforcement making such requests, there's nothing nice about it, and there's everything coercive about it. And it's a scary kind of coercion because they do have the force of the state backing them up, in a way that plays on our built-in desire to please authority, built-in desire to not rock the boat, and built-in fear of consequences of the crushing weight of the state pummeling down on us. People generally regard law enforcement with a mix of fear and antipathy, because we know that, despite the checks and balances that exist, they can ruin lives and face no consequence for doing so. So when ICE comes and asks, however nicely they may actually phrase it (though I don't expect they said "please" and "thank you,"), they're also coming at these hoteliers with a very big stick. It's just shitty that the hoteliers did, in fact, cave and hand over this data.

gamblor956 8y ago
Let's get this straight guys: If ICE had used any coecion at all to get the guest lists, Motel 6 wouldn't be in trouble with the state of Washington. Motel 6 is in trouble because they violated the law voluntarily. ICE deals with businesses differently than they deal with individuals. You're all imagining scenarios which did not happen.
dragonwriter 8y ago
> Do we know how ICE asked for these records? We know that Motel 6 didn't claim their staff were misled into a belief that they were legally compelled, which—even if it wasn't a legal defense, for PR reasons—you'd expect them to do if it was true.
oasisbob 8y ago
This isn't like it was just people caving to law enforcement in the moment, it was codified Motel 6 policy: > 4.3 ICE's usual practice was to come to Motel 6's reception desk and request the guest list from the receptionist. The receptionist would print out the guest list and give it to the ICE agent, along with a "law enforcement acknowledgment form" for the agent to sign, acknowledging receipt of the guest list. The ICE agent would review the guest list and identify individuals of interest to ICE.
- shawnz 8y ago
  This could just mean that it was the management that was pressured and not the receptionists. I just don't see any other reason why they might willingly endanger their business and customers for absolutely no benefit to themselves, besides governmental pressure.
  - gamblor956 8y ago
    Please do some more research before you keep throwing out hypothetical complaints about something that didn't happen. Motel 6 didn't just go along with ICE's request, per the complaint, Motel6 actually trained their employees to turn over such information even before ICE came calling. The reason? Motel 6 is owned by the Blackstone Group. Most of the directors and executives of the Blackstone Group are die-hard Trump supporters and have espoused hard-line views on immigration. The benefit to themselves was supporting their president's policies.
    - shawnz 8y ago
      > The benefit to themselves was supporting their president's policies. Interesting, well if that was the motive then I certainly can't have any sympathy for Motel 6 here. But I still believe that it is unfair for ICE to go without penalty, whether or not the law addresses this situation. > per the complaint, Motel6 actually trained their employees to turn over such information even before ICE came calling. It's not clear to me from the complaint that Motel 6 trained their employees as such prior to any communication from ICE. Your explanation regarding their republican alignment does make sense, but I'm not sure this specific point is accurate. > Please do some more research before you keep throwing out hypothetical complaints about something that didn't happen. This is a forum for discussion. It's not Snopes. I just want to share my layperson's opinions and also hear your (and others) expert feedback about them. By the way, I appreciate you taking the time to respond to my comments.

by Frondo 8y ago

gamblor956 8y ago

Let's get this straight guys: If ICE had used any coecion at all to get the guest lists, Motel 6 wouldn't be in trouble with the state of Washington. Motel 6 is in trouble because they violated the law voluntarily. ICE deals with businesses differently than they deal with individuals. You're all imagining scenarios which did not happen.

dragonwriter 8y ago

> Do we know how ICE asked for these records? We know that Motel 6 didn't claim their staff were misled into a belief that they were legally compelled, which—even if it wasn't a legal defense, for PR reasons—you'd expect them to do if it was true.

oasisbob 8y ago

This isn't like it was just people caving to law enforcement in the moment, it was codified Motel 6 policy: > 4.3 ICE's usual practice was to come to Motel 6's reception desk and request the guest list from the receptionist. The receptionist would print out the guest list and give it to the ICE agent, along with a "law enforcement acknowledgment form" for the agent to sign, acknowledging receipt of the guest list. The ICE agent would review the guest list and identify individuals of interest to ICE.

shawnz 8y ago
This could just mean that it was the management that was pressured and not the receptionists. I just don't see any other reason why they might willingly endanger their business and customers for absolutely no benefit to themselves, besides governmental pressure.
- gamblor956 8y ago
  Please do some more research before you keep throwing out hypothetical complaints about something that didn't happen. Motel 6 didn't just go along with ICE's request, per the complaint, Motel6 actually trained their employees to turn over such information even before ICE came calling. The reason? Motel 6 is owned by the Blackstone Group. Most of the directors and executives of the Blackstone Group are die-hard Trump supporters and have espoused hard-line views on immigration. The benefit to themselves was supporting their president's policies.
  - shawnz 8y ago
    > The benefit to themselves was supporting their president's policies. Interesting, well if that was the motive then I certainly can't have any sympathy for Motel 6 here. But I still believe that it is unfair for ICE to go without penalty, whether or not the law addresses this situation. > per the complaint, Motel6 actually trained their employees to turn over such information even before ICE came calling. It's not clear to me from the complaint that Motel 6 trained their employees as such prior to any communication from ICE. Your explanation regarding their republican alignment does make sense, but I'm not sure this specific point is accurate. > Please do some more research before you keep throwing out hypothetical complaints about something that didn't happen. This is a forum for discussion. It's not Snopes. I just want to share my layperson's opinions and also hear your (and others) expert feedback about them. By the way, I appreciate you taking the time to respond to my comments.