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Incorrect. That is like saying any corporation publicly traded yet regulated by the govt is now part of the govt. Any bank can apply to become a member and bu

by geggam 8y ago

Incorrect. That is like saying any corporation publicly traded yet regulated by the govt is now part of the govt. Any bank can apply to become a member and buy shares of the federal reserve. They simply are regulated by the govt.

manfredo 8y ago
No. Again I'm really not sure why you insist on saying so given the fact that the Federal Reserve saw fit to dedicate a whole FAQ section to say otherwise. Publicly traded companies area still owned by private people and organizations. The publicly traded nature subjects them to additional oversight, but they're still private enterprises. Where can I buy stake in the Federal reserve? What was it's stock price history? We can't because nobody "owns" the federal reserve, just like nobody "owns" the FBI or the Navy.
- geggam 8y ago
  What you cant see ? A corporation with employees becomes a member of the Federal Reserve. The job is to generate money from nothing, and get paid for it. So as a federal reserve bank you create money, charge for doing so and then you change hats from federal reserve to local private bank and loan that money to the private sector charging profits for doing so. You charge fees coming and going get salaries for both jobs and have no exposure for doing so. Bonus if your bank fails you are insured by the people who are borrowing money from you. And you think they are part of the govt
  - manfredo 8y ago
    Yes, banks can join the federal reserve system and other banks can be FDIC insured. But how do you go from that to "the Federal reserve is not part of the government". It's the central bank of the United States. Its chairman is appointed by the government. All profits are paid back to the United States. Is about as independent from the government as the FBI. Saying that the Federal reserve system is not part of the government is as non-sensical as saying the FBI is not part of the government because similar degrees of independence from the executive branch exist. I get that the fact that government agencies can be independent from the executive branch is difficult to wrap one's head around but that sort of independence is not the same as "not part of the government". Here's yet another page from the federal reserve website that explicitly says that it's part of the government: https://www.federalreserve.gov/faqs/about_12799.htm https://www.federalreserve.gov/faqs/about_12799.htm > The Federal Reserve, like many other central banks, is an independent government agency but also one that is ultimately accountable to the public and the Congress. It says right there that it is a government agency. Independent, yes, but ultimately accountable to the government. It's leadership is appointed by the government.
    - geggam 8y ago
      :) we are getting closer. Now... lets say a company was allowed to buy shares in the govt and be able to act as a govt agency while remaining a private company. So they contract themselves to do some work, pay themselves for setting up the contract, switch hats then do the work. Bonus if they don't do the job right they simply aren't liable.
      - manfredo 8y ago
        Sure... But what you describe is not how the Federal Reserve works. The Federal Reserve is accountable to Congress. If they do their job poorly, leadership can be removed. The Federal Reserve is not a private company. They don't "buy shares in the government". I'm not even sure what that even means. Nobody can buy shares in the government because the government isn't a company. I guess you might be referring to government bonds. But those aren't shares, they're contracts to get paid a greater amount when the bond reaches maturity. The whole concept of "shares of the government" is just not valid because nobody owns the government. At least not in the US, there are some monarchies where all government assets are owned by the royal family.
dragonwriter 8y ago
> That is like saying any corporation publicly traded yet regulated by the govt is now part of the govt. Why does it have to be publicly traded? Corporations are exercises of government power by which people (who may themselves be corporations) are revocably delegated special powers created by government. They are, in a very real sense, aspects of the chartering government. To the extent that they are permitted to serve basically unconstrained private purposes, that's not because they aren't part of the government, but because of what the hosting society believes about the proper application of government power.

by geggam 8y ago

manfredo 8y ago

No. Again I'm really not sure why you insist on saying so given the fact that the Federal Reserve saw fit to dedicate a whole FAQ section to say otherwise. Publicly traded companies area still owned by private people and organizations. The publicly traded nature subjects them to additional oversight, but they're still private enterprises. Where can I buy stake in the Federal reserve? What was it's stock price history? We can't because nobody "owns" the federal reserve, just like nobody "owns" the FBI or the Navy.

geggam 8y ago
What you cant see ? A corporation with employees becomes a member of the Federal Reserve. The job is to generate money from nothing, and get paid for it. So as a federal reserve bank you create money, charge for doing so and then you change hats from federal reserve to local private bank and loan that money to the private sector charging profits for doing so. You charge fees coming and going get salaries for both jobs and have no exposure for doing so. Bonus if your bank fails you are insured by the people who are borrowing money from you. And you think they are part of the govt
- manfredo 8y ago
  Yes, banks can join the federal reserve system and other banks can be FDIC insured. But how do you go from that to "the Federal reserve is not part of the government". It's the central bank of the United States. Its chairman is appointed by the government. All profits are paid back to the United States. Is about as independent from the government as the FBI. Saying that the Federal reserve system is not part of the government is as non-sensical as saying the FBI is not part of the government because similar degrees of independence from the executive branch exist. I get that the fact that government agencies can be independent from the executive branch is difficult to wrap one's head around but that sort of independence is not the same as "not part of the government". Here's yet another page from the federal reserve website that explicitly says that it's part of the government: https://www.federalreserve.gov/faqs/about_12799.htm https://www.federalreserve.gov/faqs/about_12799.htm > The Federal Reserve, like many other central banks, is an independent government agency but also one that is ultimately accountable to the public and the Congress. It says right there that it is a government agency. Independent, yes, but ultimately accountable to the government. It's leadership is appointed by the government.
  - geggam 8y ago
    :) we are getting closer. Now... lets say a company was allowed to buy shares in the govt and be able to act as a govt agency while remaining a private company. So they contract themselves to do some work, pay themselves for setting up the contract, switch hats then do the work. Bonus if they don't do the job right they simply aren't liable.
    - manfredo 8y ago
      Sure... But what you describe is not how the Federal Reserve works. The Federal Reserve is accountable to Congress. If they do their job poorly, leadership can be removed. The Federal Reserve is not a private company. They don't "buy shares in the government". I'm not even sure what that even means. Nobody can buy shares in the government because the government isn't a company. I guess you might be referring to government bonds. But those aren't shares, they're contracts to get paid a greater amount when the bond reaches maturity. The whole concept of "shares of the government" is just not valid because nobody owns the government. At least not in the US, there are some monarchies where all government assets are owned by the royal family.

dragonwriter 8y ago

> That is like saying any corporation publicly traded yet regulated by the govt is now part of the govt. Why does it have to be publicly traded? Corporations are exercises of government power by which people (who may themselves be corporations) are revocably delegated special powers created by government. They are, in a very real sense, aspects of the chartering government. To the extent that they are permitted to serve basically unconstrained private purposes, that's not because they aren't part of the government, but because of what the hosting society believes about the proper application of government power.