4 ms·

This isn't about being gay, bisexual, or transgender. I don't even see why they lump intersex with all the others. Intersex people are born with variations in

This isn't about being gay, bisexual, or transgender. I don't even see why they lump intersex with all the others. Intersex people are born with variations in the chromosomes/genitals/gonads and, as far as I know, that sounds like the exact definition of a defect - not sure if genetic or not. It's not a mental illness or a moral failing, but it's definitely outside the spectrum of what is considered normal physical (or chromosomal) characteristics at birth. As far as your last comment, we're basically already there, I wish people would stop talking about it already. I think nothing when I see homosexuals, don't even look twice at trans. Zero fucks given. On the other hand, I am a bit annoyed that nearly every TV show feels the need to push an agenda down my throat in one way or another. Does every sitcom really need a gay couple now? Is that even representative of the population as a whole?

Johnny555 8y ago
On the other hand, I am a bit annoyed that nearly every TV show feels the need to push an agenda down my throat in one way or another. Does every sitcom really need a gay couple now? Is that even representative of the population as a whole? I may have a skewed view because of where I've lived (mostly the SF Bay Area and Seattle area), but yeah, it seems to be the norm -- both at work and in my small circle of friends, I see homosexual couples. Even in my small (~30,000 people) hometown in Ohio, homosexual couples are prevalent and don't need to hide - my nephew recently came out as gay and I was surprised when he said how accepted it is in the community, it's been nearly 30 years ago since I last lived there, and at the time, being gay was a huge stigma that had to be kept hidden. So in my view, what you're seeing in the media mirrors what's happening in society - homosexuality is becoming mainstream. It's not an "agenda" they are pushing, but normal life. Alternative gender identities are slowly gaining acceptance, but even in the Bay Area it can be hard for a trans person to be accepted.
- vonseel 8y ago
  I'm in Austin, so it's definitely similar to SF in those regards, but I think overall we're talking more like ~5% of the population identifies as LGBT*, while at times it seems like any show with 4 main characters has written 1-2 of those characters to be homosexual (and usually tries to write that into the storyline somehow, dealing with identity/etc.).
  - lenticular 8y ago
    It may "seem" like every 1-2 of every for main characters is gay, but that's far from the truth. At any rate, it is clear that your homophobia is responsible for how uncomfortable you are seeing gay characters.
  - Johnny555 8y ago
    I haven't watched many recent sitcoms, I think the last one I wanted regularly was How I Met Your Mother which had zero gay lead characters (even though the biggest womanizer on the show was played by and actor who is gay in real life). There are some gay focused shows (Grace & Frankie, Will and Grace), but looking at the top 5 current sitcoms [1] 1. Big Bang Theory - none of the main characters are gay 2. Modern Family - out of 11 main characters, 2 are gay 3. Brooklyn Nine Nine - out of 10 main characters, 1 is gay 4. The Simpsons - I don't know how to count main characters, but I don't think any are gay 5. Always Sunny in Philadelphia - Out of 5 main characters, one is (or might be?) gay. (I used Wikipedia for most of these, so I may not have gotten the counts completely accurate) This doesn't seem to be a gross over representation of homosexuality - I wonder if you're suffering from observation bias, or if maybe you're just watching sitcoms that have more gay characters for whatever reason. [1] - https://www.ranker.com/list/best-current-tv-sitcoms/ranker-tv https://www.ranker.com/list/best-current-tv-sitcoms/ranker-t...
lenticular 8y ago
LGBT people are everywhere, being easily several percent of the population. I'm one of them. They should be represented in the media like everyone else. Would you like to explain the reasoning why you are against this? What are your thoughts on the level of racial minority representation in the media? Is that too high for your tastes as well?
- vonseel 8y ago
  I'm not against LGBT representation at all. I've just had the thought that 1/4 (lead) characters on shows I watch seem to be LGBT. And that's probably an exaggeration, like someone else said. I do think it's important that if a screenwriter is going to write a gay character into the story, he do it with purpose and feeling rather than just to check a box. Make the viewer empathize and feel for the character. Currently watching Dear White People. It's great. Most racial minorities seem well-represented these days. Off the top of my head, Muslim-Americans and Middle-Easterners could use some more representation. Indians too.
  - lenticular 8y ago
    You used the phrase "pushing an agenda down your throat" in reference to LGBT characters on TV. You are clearly motivated by homophobia.
    - colordrops 8y ago
      Perhaps it's cognitive bias rather than hate. Being so quick to label and bucket people negatively only pushes them away rather than convince them. This person seems reasonable and amenable to changing their mind.
      - lenticular 8y ago
        I've been around the block enough times to know homophobia when I see it, thanks. I've been dealing with it for a long time, and I'm more than happy to put homophobes in a bucket. The poster's homophobia was blatantly obvious, down to the verbatim jabs I always hear. Being upset that there are too many gay characters on tv and they are "shoving an agenda our throats" is homophobic by definition. It is 100% undisguised homophobia, without even the decorum of a dog whistle. If you can't see that, you are either unbelievably naive or are actually a homophobe who is trolling by being willfully obtuse. My money is on the latter. It needs to be called out, not coddled. Asserting equal rights is not something that is ever done with politeness. At any rate, I am quite sick of folks like you claiming that I should be careful not to offend people who say things like "pushing it down our throats" in reference to the existence of gay characters. I will never apologize for asserting my equality and speaking out against bigotry. I don't care if I make a bigot feel bad. Straight white males have society's permission to become apoplectically angry about black football players kneeling. If they can do that, I should be able to call out bigots without enablers like you trying to defend them. Your post was just idiotic. Think next time before you defend a homophobe. You are part of the problem. Be better. Next time you see bigotry, confront the bigot, not the folks calling it out.
krapp 8y ago
>As far as your last comment, we're basically already there, I wish people would stop talking about it already. I think nothing when I see homosexuals, don't even look twice at trans. Zero fucks given. Good for you, but "we" aren't basically already there at all. >On the other hand, I am a bit annoyed that nearly every TV show feels the need to push an agenda down my throat in one way or another. So... you feel the presence of gay characters in media represents an "agenda" being "pushed down your throat." You likely have no problem with straight characters, nor perhaps would even notice if a series had only straight characters, but feel that gay characters need to be justified. Fucks given after all, I guess? >Does every sitcom really need a gay couple now? Is that even representative of the population as a whole? Not every sitcom has a gay couple, that's hyperbole. However, a dearth of gay characters in media does not represent the population as a whole (whatever that might mean in context) and the perception created by this historical lack of gay representation in media makes it seem as if gay people are less common in reality than they are. So, yes, the few gay characters you see in media now probably do represent reality more accurately than would their absence, and may even still under represent the norm in some contexts. Here[0] is a good video by one of the Council of Geeks members on why mainstream LGBT representation in media matters. [0]https://youtu.be/XLPw5piB69E https://youtu.be/XLPw5piB69E
- vonseel 8y ago
  > Fucks given after all, I guess? I knew that was coming eventually ;) You make several valid points. I will check out the video you referenced. On the other hand - I have wondered if maybe Hollywood is over-represented by LGBT persons (not that it's a bad thing) and thus gay screenwriters/investors/producers are of course going to include their own stories in the things they create. I could be totally wrong here, just an idea I have had. What is few to some is many to others, it seems. Maybe I just watch a lot of progressive stuff. There are a ton of teenage lesbian characters in a lot of stuff on Netflix; enough to make me think being lesbian is in vogue.
  - krapp 8y ago
    >I have wondered if maybe Hollywood is over-represented by LGBT persons (not that it's a bad thing) and thus gay screenwriters/investors/producers are of course going to include their own stories in the things they create. I don't know about being "over-represented," but I don't think it's unreasonable that there is a newer generation of LGBT writers and showrunners interested in writing the sort of stories that represent them, or that they never got to see when they were younger and struggling with their identity. That's not an agenda so much as writing what you know, though. And let's not beat around the bush - if all a show wanted was token representation, "teenage lesbian" is the most palatable form it can take in a heteronormative, male-dominant culture.

Johnny555 8y ago

On the other hand, I am a bit annoyed that nearly every TV show feels the need to push an agenda down my throat in one way or another. Does every sitcom really need a gay couple now? Is that even representative of the population as a whole? I may have a skewed view because of where I've lived (mostly the SF Bay Area and Seattle area), but yeah, it seems to be the norm -- both at work and in my small circle of friends, I see homosexual couples. Even in my small (~30,000 people) hometown in Ohio, homosexual couples are prevalent and don't need to hide - my nephew recently came out as gay and I was surprised when he said how accepted it is in the community, it's been nearly 30 years ago since I last lived there, and at the time, being gay was a huge stigma that had to be kept hidden. So in my view, what you're seeing in the media mirrors what's happening in society - homosexuality is becoming mainstream. It's not an "agenda" they are pushing, but normal life. Alternative gender identities are slowly gaining acceptance, but even in the Bay Area it can be hard for a trans person to be accepted.

vonseel 8y ago
I'm in Austin, so it's definitely similar to SF in those regards, but I think overall we're talking more like ~5% of the population identifies as LGBT*, while at times it seems like any show with 4 main characters has written 1-2 of those characters to be homosexual (and usually tries to write that into the storyline somehow, dealing with identity/etc.).
- lenticular 8y ago
  It may "seem" like every 1-2 of every for main characters is gay, but that's far from the truth. At any rate, it is clear that your homophobia is responsible for how uncomfortable you are seeing gay characters.
- Johnny555 8y ago
  I haven't watched many recent sitcoms, I think the last one I wanted regularly was How I Met Your Mother which had zero gay lead characters (even though the biggest womanizer on the show was played by and actor who is gay in real life). There are some gay focused shows (Grace & Frankie, Will and Grace), but looking at the top 5 current sitcoms [1] 1. Big Bang Theory - none of the main characters are gay 2. Modern Family - out of 11 main characters, 2 are gay 3. Brooklyn Nine Nine - out of 10 main characters, 1 is gay 4. The Simpsons - I don't know how to count main characters, but I don't think any are gay 5. Always Sunny in Philadelphia - Out of 5 main characters, one is (or might be?) gay. (I used Wikipedia for most of these, so I may not have gotten the counts completely accurate) This doesn't seem to be a gross over representation of homosexuality - I wonder if you're suffering from observation bias, or if maybe you're just watching sitcoms that have more gay characters for whatever reason. [1] - https://www.ranker.com/list/best-current-tv-sitcoms/ranker-tv https://www.ranker.com/list/best-current-tv-sitcoms/ranker-t...

lenticular 8y ago

LGBT people are everywhere, being easily several percent of the population. I'm one of them. They should be represented in the media like everyone else. Would you like to explain the reasoning why you are against this? What are your thoughts on the level of racial minority representation in the media? Is that too high for your tastes as well?

vonseel 8y ago
I'm not against LGBT representation at all. I've just had the thought that 1/4 (lead) characters on shows I watch seem to be LGBT. And that's probably an exaggeration, like someone else said. I do think it's important that if a screenwriter is going to write a gay character into the story, he do it with purpose and feeling rather than just to check a box. Make the viewer empathize and feel for the character. Currently watching Dear White People. It's great. Most racial minorities seem well-represented these days. Off the top of my head, Muslim-Americans and Middle-Easterners could use some more representation. Indians too.
- lenticular 8y ago
  You used the phrase "pushing an agenda down your throat" in reference to LGBT characters on TV. You are clearly motivated by homophobia.
  - colordrops 8y ago
    Perhaps it's cognitive bias rather than hate. Being so quick to label and bucket people negatively only pushes them away rather than convince them. This person seems reasonable and amenable to changing their mind.
    - lenticular 8y ago
      I've been around the block enough times to know homophobia when I see it, thanks. I've been dealing with it for a long time, and I'm more than happy to put homophobes in a bucket. The poster's homophobia was blatantly obvious, down to the verbatim jabs I always hear. Being upset that there are too many gay characters on tv and they are "shoving an agenda our throats" is homophobic by definition. It is 100% undisguised homophobia, without even the decorum of a dog whistle. If you can't see that, you are either unbelievably naive or are actually a homophobe who is trolling by being willfully obtuse. My money is on the latter. It needs to be called out, not coddled. Asserting equal rights is not something that is ever done with politeness. At any rate, I am quite sick of folks like you claiming that I should be careful not to offend people who say things like "pushing it down our throats" in reference to the existence of gay characters. I will never apologize for asserting my equality and speaking out against bigotry. I don't care if I make a bigot feel bad. Straight white males have society's permission to become apoplectically angry about black football players kneeling. If they can do that, I should be able to call out bigots without enablers like you trying to defend them. Your post was just idiotic. Think next time before you defend a homophobe. You are part of the problem. Be better. Next time you see bigotry, confront the bigot, not the folks calling it out.

krapp 8y ago

>As far as your last comment, we're basically already there, I wish people would stop talking about it already. I think nothing when I see homosexuals, don't even look twice at trans. Zero fucks given. Good for you, but "we" aren't basically already there at all. >On the other hand, I am a bit annoyed that nearly every TV show feels the need to push an agenda down my throat in one way or another. So... you feel the presence of gay characters in media represents an "agenda" being "pushed down your throat." You likely have no problem with straight characters, nor perhaps would even notice if a series had only straight characters, but feel that gay characters need to be justified. Fucks given after all, I guess? >Does every sitcom really need a gay couple now? Is that even representative of the population as a whole? Not every sitcom has a gay couple, that's hyperbole. However, a dearth of gay characters in media does not represent the population as a whole (whatever that might mean in context) and the perception created by this historical lack of gay representation in media makes it seem as if gay people are less common in reality than they are. So, yes, the few gay characters you see in media now probably do represent reality more accurately than would their absence, and may even still under represent the norm in some contexts. Here[0] is a good video by one of the Council of Geeks members on why mainstream LGBT representation in media matters. [0]https://youtu.be/XLPw5piB69E https://youtu.be/XLPw5piB69E

vonseel 8y ago
> Fucks given after all, I guess? I knew that was coming eventually ;) You make several valid points. I will check out the video you referenced. On the other hand - I have wondered if maybe Hollywood is over-represented by LGBT persons (not that it's a bad thing) and thus gay screenwriters/investors/producers are of course going to include their own stories in the things they create. I could be totally wrong here, just an idea I have had. What is few to some is many to others, it seems. Maybe I just watch a lot of progressive stuff. There are a ton of teenage lesbian characters in a lot of stuff on Netflix; enough to make me think being lesbian is in vogue.
- krapp 8y ago
  >I have wondered if maybe Hollywood is over-represented by LGBT persons (not that it's a bad thing) and thus gay screenwriters/investors/producers are of course going to include their own stories in the things they create. I don't know about being "over-represented," but I don't think it's unreasonable that there is a newer generation of LGBT writers and showrunners interested in writing the sort of stories that represent them, or that they never got to see when they were younger and struggling with their identity. That's not an agenda so much as writing what you know, though. And let's not beat around the bush - if all a show wanted was token representation, "teenage lesbian" is the most palatable form it can take in a heteronormative, male-dominant culture.