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I think the author misses a point here. The issue isn’t that 5$ cup of coffee alone but rather a mindset of all these little purchases which can add up to say $

I think the author misses a point here. The issue isn’t that 5$ cup of coffee alone but rather a mindset of all these little purchases which can add up to say $50 a day which is both real money and don’t actually bring joy/value to your life. If the coffee actually makes you happy go for it. But if it’s just inertia/laziness then it is money flushed down a drain which yes adds up over the long term.

hannasanarion 8y ago
Who in the world buys ten fancy coffees or equivalent every day?
- ineedasername 8y ago
  Plenty of people by 2, or 3. Then think of streaming services and other subscription services, gold-plated cable TV packages, etc. That meal box kit that costs you $240/month. It's pretty easy to get non-essential luxury spending up in to a few hundreds of dollars a month. Not to say you ditch it all, but judicious pruning of it down to the essentials/most used/biggest time savers etc isn't impractical. Obviously if you're already socking away savings and retirement, living 10% below your means etc., this may not apply. In my case though, the spouse & I have do the math in war-gaming things like one of us losing their job, having to take a pay cut, etc., and we could cut $1000/month in "extra" expenses with a bit of pain, and twice that if we really had to. Once you start looking for these small non-essential purchases it's not hard to find them, and triage what's more/less necessary.
  - threwawasy1228 8y ago
    At the same time, I feel like we are talking in a bubble here about a lot of unreal examples. When people make these coffee arguments it is often to people like several of my friends who are making a low income to begin with. Where are they supposed to get this 'saving 10%' when they don't actually have any luxuries beyond their 5$ of coffee a day? Where are they supposed to take that from if they are already barely making ends meet? And then older generations tell them to take their coffee away.
    - JoeAltmaier 8y ago
      Make your own coffee. Its a strawman to suggest anybody needs a $5 latte else they got nothing. Its just self-indulgence, and nobody 'needs' that. Its a first-world notion.
      - hannasanarion 8y ago
        Since when is life about needs and nothing else? "small luxuries" like a nice coffee should not be exclusively available to the super rich.
        JoeAltmaier 8y ago
        ...and there it is again. Its a $5 latte or nothing - a false dichotomy. Like I just said.
      - epscoe 8y ago
        Agreed. I have a cold brew kit that cost ~$20, and I found a cheap coffee that tastes great in it. Very little effort required (dump + rinse the bag once a week or slightly more often), less than $1 per day. Throw some grocery store dairy in there, still probably under $1. I get the social aspect of getting coffee with people, but if we're just talking about the value of the drink, there's no reason to spend that much regularly and it really is enough to make a difference if your non-negotiable expenses already push your limits. Paraphrasing another commenter, 5% of take-home might be 15+% of disposable, which is a huge bite out of savings.
  - hannasanarion 8y ago
    None of those things get you even close to $50/day. The "meal box kit"s are hundreds of dollars a month, yeah, but they also come with hundreds of dollars worth of food. Blue Apron comes out to about $10 per meal and they're considered the expensive choice. TV packages get you up to $60 per month, or $2 per day. Wow, so wasteful, almost the price of a one-way commute and all you get in return is broad and unlimited 24/7 entertainment. So we're up to $20 per day: $8 for food delivered to your house (which shouldn't even count because you need to eat anyway), $10 for two nice coffees, and $2 for television. Tell me about all the other outrageous luxury spending that gets us up to $50 per day. $50/day is $1500/month. nobody spends that much on little luxuries. 46% of Americans can't afford to spend that much on rent.
    - jshaqaw 8y ago
      I don’t think you live in NYC hannasarion. A cab here and there instead of the subway etc... Also, the numbers jump by multiples if you have kids and include them in the little luxury buys. Again, my point isn’t to deprive yourself unnecessarily of joy. It’s just to be conscious of purchases which do add up and yet don’t actually make you much happier.
    - ineedasername 8y ago
      Meal boxes are more than twice as much/meal than buying your own ingredients. I calculate the average cost per serving when I duplicated Hello Fresh recipes at roughly $3/serving. Add in a few hundred dollars a month for eating out as well, the occasional dinner, lots of lunches, all a luxury compared to cooking/preparing your own. I have no idea where you're getting $60 for cable, that may be the promotional cost but where I am, it's $75 for the cable, $11 for the cable box, and about $25 in other non-optional fees too, bringing it to $110 for the base package, and using that price is still a straw man: My comment specifically referenced the high-end even more expensive packages that can top $200 per month. Add in internet to that cable bill with upgraded data speeds and that can easily be another $100/month. Then Add in another $30 per month for a few streaming services, maybe another $30 for content rentals/purchases, $20 to see a movie in theaters once a month Then there are costs the significantly pad essential things like housing and auto costs: Plenty of people lease a new car every 3 years instead of buying one and keeping for a long time, and at the same time spend more than necessary, getting a top model when a base model for $10k less will work just as well. Plenty of people buy much larger houses/apartments than necessary, opting for more rooms or more square footage than is needed, fancy appliances, counter tops, etc. It's possible to do all of the above in single-person household. Now consider a married couple, or a couple with kids. None of the above is all that abnormal. It's also a straw man to say people can't afford this: You attribute to me an argument I never made. I never claimed every person could or did spend this much money or luxuries. Nor was I referring just to luxury items. I was referring to non-essential expenses in general, with some reference to luxury. And it is absolutely true that lots of people spend $18,000/year in non-essential expenses, while at the same time they have little savings, retirement, etc.
compiler-guy 8y ago
Although you are right that the broad mindset is what matters, that isn't the example he is refuting. He is refuting (or at least attempting to refute), a specific Suze Orman claim.

hannasanarion 8y ago

Who in the world buys ten fancy coffees or equivalent every day?

ineedasername 8y ago
Plenty of people by 2, or 3. Then think of streaming services and other subscription services, gold-plated cable TV packages, etc. That meal box kit that costs you $240/month. It's pretty easy to get non-essential luxury spending up in to a few hundreds of dollars a month. Not to say you ditch it all, but judicious pruning of it down to the essentials/most used/biggest time savers etc isn't impractical. Obviously if you're already socking away savings and retirement, living 10% below your means etc., this may not apply. In my case though, the spouse & I have do the math in war-gaming things like one of us losing their job, having to take a pay cut, etc., and we could cut $1000/month in "extra" expenses with a bit of pain, and twice that if we really had to. Once you start looking for these small non-essential purchases it's not hard to find them, and triage what's more/less necessary.
- threwawasy1228 8y ago
  At the same time, I feel like we are talking in a bubble here about a lot of unreal examples. When people make these coffee arguments it is often to people like several of my friends who are making a low income to begin with. Where are they supposed to get this 'saving 10%' when they don't actually have any luxuries beyond their 5$ of coffee a day? Where are they supposed to take that from if they are already barely making ends meet? And then older generations tell them to take their coffee away.
  - JoeAltmaier 8y ago
    Make your own coffee. Its a strawman to suggest anybody needs a $5 latte else they got nothing. Its just self-indulgence, and nobody 'needs' that. Its a first-world notion.
    - hannasanarion 8y ago
      Since when is life about needs and nothing else? "small luxuries" like a nice coffee should not be exclusively available to the super rich.
      - JoeAltmaier 8y ago
        ...and there it is again. Its a $5 latte or nothing - a false dichotomy. Like I just said.
    - epscoe 8y ago
      Agreed. I have a cold brew kit that cost ~$20, and I found a cheap coffee that tastes great in it. Very little effort required (dump + rinse the bag once a week or slightly more often), less than $1 per day. Throw some grocery store dairy in there, still probably under $1. I get the social aspect of getting coffee with people, but if we're just talking about the value of the drink, there's no reason to spend that much regularly and it really is enough to make a difference if your non-negotiable expenses already push your limits. Paraphrasing another commenter, 5% of take-home might be 15+% of disposable, which is a huge bite out of savings.
- hannasanarion 8y ago
  None of those things get you even close to $50/day. The "meal box kit"s are hundreds of dollars a month, yeah, but they also come with hundreds of dollars worth of food. Blue Apron comes out to about $10 per meal and they're considered the expensive choice. TV packages get you up to $60 per month, or $2 per day. Wow, so wasteful, almost the price of a one-way commute and all you get in return is broad and unlimited 24/7 entertainment. So we're up to $20 per day: $8 for food delivered to your house (which shouldn't even count because you need to eat anyway), $10 for two nice coffees, and $2 for television. Tell me about all the other outrageous luxury spending that gets us up to $50 per day. $50/day is $1500/month. nobody spends that much on little luxuries. 46% of Americans can't afford to spend that much on rent.
  - jshaqaw 8y ago
    I don’t think you live in NYC hannasarion. A cab here and there instead of the subway etc... Also, the numbers jump by multiples if you have kids and include them in the little luxury buys. Again, my point isn’t to deprive yourself unnecessarily of joy. It’s just to be conscious of purchases which do add up and yet don’t actually make you much happier.
  - ineedasername 8y ago
    Meal boxes are more than twice as much/meal than buying your own ingredients. I calculate the average cost per serving when I duplicated Hello Fresh recipes at roughly $3/serving. Add in a few hundred dollars a month for eating out as well, the occasional dinner, lots of lunches, all a luxury compared to cooking/preparing your own. I have no idea where you're getting $60 for cable, that may be the promotional cost but where I am, it's $75 for the cable, $11 for the cable box, and about $25 in other non-optional fees too, bringing it to $110 for the base package, and using that price is still a straw man: My comment specifically referenced the high-end even more expensive packages that can top $200 per month. Add in internet to that cable bill with upgraded data speeds and that can easily be another $100/month. Then Add in another $30 per month for a few streaming services, maybe another $30 for content rentals/purchases, $20 to see a movie in theaters once a month Then there are costs the significantly pad essential things like housing and auto costs: Plenty of people lease a new car every 3 years instead of buying one and keeping for a long time, and at the same time spend more than necessary, getting a top model when a base model for $10k less will work just as well. Plenty of people buy much larger houses/apartments than necessary, opting for more rooms or more square footage than is needed, fancy appliances, counter tops, etc. It's possible to do all of the above in single-person household. Now consider a married couple, or a couple with kids. None of the above is all that abnormal. It's also a straw man to say people can't afford this: You attribute to me an argument I never made. I never claimed every person could or did spend this much money or luxuries. Nor was I referring just to luxury items. I was referring to non-essential expenses in general, with some reference to luxury. And it is absolutely true that lots of people spend $18,000/year in non-essential expenses, while at the same time they have little savings, retirement, etc.

compiler-guy 8y ago

Although you are right that the broad mindset is what matters, that isn't the example he is refuting. He is refuting (or at least attempting to refute), a specific Suze Orman claim.