7 ms·

https://youtu.be/2S0e-i117vY https://youtu.be/2S0e-i117vY Teen Vogue video

spammersharass 8y ago
Like for one minute, can we be honest with ourselves. Why are we normalizing this? These people, deserve respect, but honestly just as much, they need help. Not a single doctor in the video, just a bunch of preaching. It's so sad to see people so misguided in their own chemistry and reality. Also when are we going to stop pretending NPR isn't some liberal BS most of the time.
- pavlov 8y ago
  "These people, deserve respect, but honestly just as much, they need help." What kind of help are you proposing?
  - v_lisivka 8y ago
    He can donate his girl to a gay man, I suppose. :-/
- s_kilk 8y ago
  > just as much, they need help. With a claim like that, you're going to have to provide some evidence, or at least a solid argument.
- brandon272 8y ago
  > Why are we normalizing this? Normalizing what? There are doctors involved. What do you think the recommended course of action is for someone with gender dysphoria or someone born intersex?
  - stcredzero 8y ago
    What do you think the recommended course of action is for someone with gender dysphoria or someone born intersex? For people who get intervention, the rates of depression and suicide remain alarmingly high. For children and adolescents who are told to wait until they are adults before receiving physical intervention, what are the rates of depression and suicide? I have read and heard that many such people become well adjusted as adults. For those that don't become well adjusted, there's still the option of physical intervention.
    - lenticular 8y ago
      What you have heard and read is wrong. No, people forced to live as a gender contrary to their own do not grow up to be well adjusted adults. Gender dysphoria is a real disorder as any perusal of legitimate medical research will tell you. The sources I imagine you reach for are non-scientific and not appropriate for HN.
      - stcredzero 8y ago
        Gender dysphoria is a real disorder No one here is questioning that. The sources I imagine you reach for are non-scientific and not appropriate for HN. That's quite an Authoritarian stance. How about a mainstream liberal paper and a mainstream conservative one? https://www.nytimes.com/2013/06/30/opinion/sunday/sunday-dialogue-our-notions-of-gender.html https://www.nytimes.com/2013/06/30/opinion/sunday/sunday-dia... https://nationalpost.com/news/cbc-orders-last-minute-cancellation-of-bbc-documentary-that-activists-say-is-transphobic https://nationalpost.com/news/cbc-orders-last-minute-cancell... Reading the reactions around the articles and media referenced in them just strike me as a combination of science and medicine along with ideological activism. My experience is that so long as people are in a community which accepts them, the vast majority of people will figure things out without the need for surgery and hormone injections.
- ben_w 8y ago
  I’ve seen a lot of grossly oversimplified biology and science, this is remarkable for how competent it is. Yes, some BS in there, but nobody’s perfect. For example, if you assume gender is binary and XX=Female/XY=Male, which gender is someone with Klinefelter syndrome (XXY)?
  - colordrops 8y ago
    The literature seems to refer to them as male.
- asciimo 8y ago
  When I watch this video, I think about how my mind needs to expand to better understand the complex issues that these authentic people are describing. I think about what I need to learn to live harmoniously with the staggering diversity of humans on this planet. The "help" they need is compassion and open-mindedness from their fellow humans.
- krapp 8y ago
  >Why are we normalizing this? Because it is normal. The gender/sexual binary is the norm, but it isn't the law, and it isn't explicitly a binary, but the top of a distribution curve. People are complicated. Gender, sexuality, preference, what expressions are acceptable in society and what are transgressive, are all complex and... dare one say... fluid. Having a sexual preference or gender identity that falls outside the heteronormative gender binary isn't a sign of genetic defect, mental illness or moral failing, it's simply not the norm, but still natural. We need to come to the point where being gay, bisexual, transgender, whatever is seen as no different than having an unusual eye or hair color, or being left handed.
  - vonseel 8y ago
    This isn't about being gay, bisexual, or transgender. I don't even see why they lump intersex with all the others. Intersex people are born with variations in the chromosomes/genitals/gonads and, as far as I know, that sounds like the exact definition of a defect - not sure if genetic or not. It's not a mental illness or a moral failing, but it's definitely outside the spectrum of what is considered normal physical (or chromosomal) characteristics at birth. As far as your last comment, we're basically already there, I wish people would stop talking about it already. I think nothing when I see homosexuals, don't even look twice at trans. Zero fucks given. On the other hand, I am a bit annoyed that nearly every TV show feels the need to push an agenda down my throat in one way or another. Does every sitcom really need a gay couple now? Is that even representative of the population as a whole?
    - Johnny555 8y ago
      On the other hand, I am a bit annoyed that nearly every TV show feels the need to push an agenda down my throat in one way or another. Does every sitcom really need a gay couple now? Is that even representative of the population as a whole? I may have a skewed view because of where I've lived (mostly the SF Bay Area and Seattle area), but yeah, it seems to be the norm -- both at work and in my small circle of friends, I see homosexual couples. Even in my small (~30,000 people) hometown in Ohio, homosexual couples are prevalent and don't need to hide - my nephew recently came out as gay and I was surprised when he said how accepted it is in the community, it's been nearly 30 years ago since I last lived there, and at the time, being gay was a huge stigma that had to be kept hidden. So in my view, what you're seeing in the media mirrors what's happening in society - homosexuality is becoming mainstream. It's not an "agenda" they are pushing, but normal life. Alternative gender identities are slowly gaining acceptance, but even in the Bay Area it can be hard for a trans person to be accepted.
- MarshallBanana 8y ago
  For the very simple and objective reason that if we do not, they are unhappy, suffer, and tend to kill themselves. If they are accepted, they are fine, and happy. This is supported by plenty of scientific research. Basic human decency, as well as Occam's Razor, demand that we take this seriously. And to deny it is nothing short of sadism.
  - tree_of_item 8y ago
    That statement is not supported by plenty of scientific research. One of the problems is that organizations like WPATH suppress any research that contradicts the trans narrative, and publish poor studies that support it. I understand this video is long but it goes in to detail as to why the "scientific research" has been, well, doctored: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6mtQ1geeD_c https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6mtQ1geeD_c
ravenstine 8y ago
> Binary is bullshit. Um, no. Reality dictates that everything is based on relativity and probability, but the logic that everything technically falls into a grey area doesn't mean that abstractions like male and female, man and woman (silos that the vast vast majority of people fall into) aren't useful, practical, or real. If one believes that binary is bullshit, then be consistent and accept metaphysical nihilism. Accept that binary in computers is "bullshit" because a 1 can be represented by an infinite number of voltages, and sometimes 0 is represented by a really low voltage. Ignorant binary-normative CPUs! I don't care how people identify, how they have sex, how they love, etc. People should be able to express their true selves, but I'm getting tired of the constant disdain against normalcy. I've never quite fit in anywhere I go so I think I can understand what it's like to want society to conform to one's vision. Part of being a part of society is some level of conformity and accepting that other people aren't like you. If binary-non-conforming people want acceptance, then they ought to quit acting like my sex and my gender are bullshit. Gay people didn't achieve their current status in society, as better as it could be, by telling gay people that there's no such thing as "straight" sex. > Gender is about your identity, your expression, and it's often based on your idea of sex. If gender isn't related to the perception or expression of biological sex, then what is it? If sex is optional for gender, then how is gender different from fashion? I could go on point by point, but those two things really address most of the video. EDIT: For clarity, I'm not saying that I don't think that gender isn't a form of fashion. I'm saying that, if the variable of sex is removed, then it's a totally useless word that can be substituted with the word fashion. (in which case it's bizarre that people are trying to make other people like their sense of fashion)
- senectus1 8y ago
  Binary isn't bullshit, it's just irrelevant.
- watwut 8y ago
  First half is about intersex people who do not fit into those boxes. They are operated on infancy to fit into boxes. It is not like they would have any choice in the matter. They did not chose how they are born and they did not choose to be operated on. Intersex means that you have mix of male and female organs/hormons. Or you look like women, but don't have fitting chromosomes. Operation is done on theory that it will be easier for you this way. > If gender isn't related to the perception or expression of biological sex, then what is it? If sex is optional for gender, then how is gender different from fashion? Gender afaik is not all that different for fashion. Writing in general and especially poetry was considered male thing. It was weird for girl to do it. Now it is considered girl thing (at least where I live). Consciously and subconsciously, people do and don't do things based on what makes them look weird vs normal or popular or fitting in. Or they just follow cues (every boy in class got star wars sticker and every girl barbie one so they just follow that). My understanding of gender is that it is what you do cause of these things.
dopamean 8y ago
I cant help but feel like if gender norms weren't so rigid and people were allowed to express themselves however they feel comfortable without being stigmatized and judged then you wouldn't have people say (imo) crazy things like "my biology is the biology of a woman regardless of whether or not doctors agree." That honestly just feels like an extreme (and ignorant, again, imo) response to hatred and discrimination that people have experience in the past. "A trans woman's biology is a female biology" is just a statement I cannot agree with at all. One of my best friends growing up was a guy I'll call Adam. In high school Adam was an incredible athlete (he was a runner and swimmer) and held a lot of county records and was the third fastest at the 400m hurdles in the state. Adam came out as trans around his 21st birthday and now lives a woman I'll call Alice. Alice is a trans woman. The idea that her biology is that of a person born with two X chromosomes and a vagina is a little ridiculous to me. I see Alice as a woman today because that's what she wants and it doesn't make a difference to our friendship however I know Alice has a penis and spent 90% of her life living as a boy/man. FWIW, she and I have talked a lot about this and shares my views. In fact my views on the matter are largely influenced by her perspective on it.
- weeksie 8y ago
  100% I often wonder if the trans-rights movement is stuck in this kind of rhetorical cul-de-sac because the gay rights movement leaned so hard on "born this way" to make its case. That made sense because it moved the discussion away from sexual morality toward fairness. No doubt necessary to win the concessions and public opinion change of the 00s-10s. In reality it shouldn't matter how innate sexual preference or gender identity are. People should be free to identify and fuck as they please. Unfortunately some on the ultra-woke side of the trans rights movement have continued to paint themselves into the corner of "born this way" but then have to backfill their biological epistemology to fit their rhetoric.
  - kzrdude 8y ago
    I haven't personally heard a trans story that conflicts with "born this way", to understand what I mean you'd use the perspective that it refers to both the body and the mind that inhabits it.
olivermarks 8y ago
Don't shoot the messenger down voting my post, I put it up for context. I find it odd that 'Teen Vogue' magazine should be showcasing these types of personal views as fact, as the comments on the Youtube video also discuss....
- vonseel 8y ago
  They shouldn't be pushing this stuff down teenager's throats, that's for sure. I'm fully supportive of equal rights for intersex people, among other disenfranchised groups, but this is ridiculous. They aren't going to get anywhere by saying "bodies are not male or female" or any of the other bullshit arguments in this video. Intersex is a real thing, apparently it's not just one specific thing[1] and it can manifest in different variations to the sex hormones. Intersex people should be treated fairly and equally. I don't know any intersex personally, but if I did, I hope that I could be an honest friend and treat them with compassion. All of that said, it isn't going to change my viewpoint that most people are either female or male; for the most part, there are only two genders. Are they asking us to consider that a third, unassigned gender is a normality and the world should be divided into more than two genders? You can identify as a robot, for all I care; but if you are born XX-chromosomal with a vagina, you're a woman, if you're born XY with a penis, you are a male. If you are born with some odd mixture of chromosome or sexual organs, then it's up to you to decide and I guess that's what the video is trying to say, after all. I'm not going to judge anyone for it. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intersex https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intersex
  - fzeroracer 8y ago
    You're making the common mistake of equating gender with sex. Gender is how society expects a person to express themselves and how an individual identifies. Sex is the genetic component behind it. You also ignore the hormone component of gender expression. Someone could be born male, yet look feminine as a result of other factors and how they choose to express themselves. The reverse is true for women.
    - tree_of_item 8y ago
shereadsthenews 8y ago
Can we agree that the initialism "LGBTQIA+" must be stopped before it spreads?
- CryoLogic 8y ago
  I don't think there is anything wrong with advocating for rights and fair treatment which was the original goal of the movement. Much like in religion or politics the ones causing issues are the extremists in the LGBTQ community. The ones who ignore well researched biological fact in order to push their agendas, the ones that censor alternative viewpoints without a counterargument, and the ones who go to extreme measures to get attention via their preferences or to attempt to get privileges above equal level to those with more common preferences. The ones that need to be stopped are the extremist ones who are using it as a guise to push their own agendas, not those who just want equality and fair treatment.
  - shereadsthenews 8y ago
    I'm talking about the linguistic construct. It has a plus sign at the end to indicate "and every other letter and symbol in the union of all known alphabets".
    - CryoLogic 8y ago
      Oh definitely. It's not very practical to invent a new name every time someone comes up with a new term. And all encompassing + is so vague it is almost irrelevant to add.
- ben509 8y ago
  It seems like "S+" for "sex-positive" pretty much captures the intent.
deleted 8y ago
[deleted]

Like for one minute, can we be honest with ourselves. Why are we normalizing this? These people, deserve respect, but honestly just as much, they need help. Not a single doctor in the video, just a bunch of preaching. It's so sad to see people so misguided in their own chemistry and reality. Also when are we going to stop pretending NPR isn't some liberal BS most of the time.

pavlov 8y ago
"These people, deserve respect, but honestly just as much, they need help." What kind of help are you proposing?
- v_lisivka 8y ago
  He can donate his girl to a gay man, I suppose. :-/
s_kilk 8y ago
> just as much, they need help. With a claim like that, you're going to have to provide some evidence, or at least a solid argument.
brandon272 8y ago
> Why are we normalizing this? Normalizing what? There are doctors involved. What do you think the recommended course of action is for someone with gender dysphoria or someone born intersex?
- stcredzero 8y ago
  What do you think the recommended course of action is for someone with gender dysphoria or someone born intersex? For people who get intervention, the rates of depression and suicide remain alarmingly high. For children and adolescents who are told to wait until they are adults before receiving physical intervention, what are the rates of depression and suicide? I have read and heard that many such people become well adjusted as adults. For those that don't become well adjusted, there's still the option of physical intervention.
  - lenticular 8y ago
    What you have heard and read is wrong. No, people forced to live as a gender contrary to their own do not grow up to be well adjusted adults. Gender dysphoria is a real disorder as any perusal of legitimate medical research will tell you. The sources I imagine you reach for are non-scientific and not appropriate for HN.
    - stcredzero 8y ago
      Gender dysphoria is a real disorder No one here is questioning that. The sources I imagine you reach for are non-scientific and not appropriate for HN. That's quite an Authoritarian stance. How about a mainstream liberal paper and a mainstream conservative one? https://www.nytimes.com/2013/06/30/opinion/sunday/sunday-dialogue-our-notions-of-gender.html https://www.nytimes.com/2013/06/30/opinion/sunday/sunday-dia... https://nationalpost.com/news/cbc-orders-last-minute-cancellation-of-bbc-documentary-that-activists-say-is-transphobic https://nationalpost.com/news/cbc-orders-last-minute-cancell... Reading the reactions around the articles and media referenced in them just strike me as a combination of science and medicine along with ideological activism. My experience is that so long as people are in a community which accepts them, the vast majority of people will figure things out without the need for surgery and hormone injections.
ben_w 8y ago
I’ve seen a lot of grossly oversimplified biology and science, this is remarkable for how competent it is. Yes, some BS in there, but nobody’s perfect. For example, if you assume gender is binary and XX=Female/XY=Male, which gender is someone with Klinefelter syndrome (XXY)?
- colordrops 8y ago
  The literature seems to refer to them as male.
asciimo 8y ago
When I watch this video, I think about how my mind needs to expand to better understand the complex issues that these authentic people are describing. I think about what I need to learn to live harmoniously with the staggering diversity of humans on this planet. The "help" they need is compassion and open-mindedness from their fellow humans.
krapp 8y ago
>Why are we normalizing this? Because it is normal. The gender/sexual binary is the norm, but it isn't the law, and it isn't explicitly a binary, but the top of a distribution curve. People are complicated. Gender, sexuality, preference, what expressions are acceptable in society and what are transgressive, are all complex and... dare one say... fluid. Having a sexual preference or gender identity that falls outside the heteronormative gender binary isn't a sign of genetic defect, mental illness or moral failing, it's simply not the norm, but still natural. We need to come to the point where being gay, bisexual, transgender, whatever is seen as no different than having an unusual eye or hair color, or being left handed.
- vonseel 8y ago
  This isn't about being gay, bisexual, or transgender. I don't even see why they lump intersex with all the others. Intersex people are born with variations in the chromosomes/genitals/gonads and, as far as I know, that sounds like the exact definition of a defect - not sure if genetic or not. It's not a mental illness or a moral failing, but it's definitely outside the spectrum of what is considered normal physical (or chromosomal) characteristics at birth. As far as your last comment, we're basically already there, I wish people would stop talking about it already. I think nothing when I see homosexuals, don't even look twice at trans. Zero fucks given. On the other hand, I am a bit annoyed that nearly every TV show feels the need to push an agenda down my throat in one way or another. Does every sitcom really need a gay couple now? Is that even representative of the population as a whole?
  - Johnny555 8y ago
    On the other hand, I am a bit annoyed that nearly every TV show feels the need to push an agenda down my throat in one way or another. Does every sitcom really need a gay couple now? Is that even representative of the population as a whole? I may have a skewed view because of where I've lived (mostly the SF Bay Area and Seattle area), but yeah, it seems to be the norm -- both at work and in my small circle of friends, I see homosexual couples. Even in my small (~30,000 people) hometown in Ohio, homosexual couples are prevalent and don't need to hide - my nephew recently came out as gay and I was surprised when he said how accepted it is in the community, it's been nearly 30 years ago since I last lived there, and at the time, being gay was a huge stigma that had to be kept hidden. So in my view, what you're seeing in the media mirrors what's happening in society - homosexuality is becoming mainstream. It's not an "agenda" they are pushing, but normal life. Alternative gender identities are slowly gaining acceptance, but even in the Bay Area it can be hard for a trans person to be accepted.
MarshallBanana 8y ago
For the very simple and objective reason that if we do not, they are unhappy, suffer, and tend to kill themselves. If they are accepted, they are fine, and happy. This is supported by plenty of scientific research. Basic human decency, as well as Occam's Razor, demand that we take this seriously. And to deny it is nothing short of sadism.
- tree_of_item 8y ago
  That statement is not supported by plenty of scientific research. One of the problems is that organizations like WPATH suppress any research that contradicts the trans narrative, and publish poor studies that support it. I understand this video is long but it goes in to detail as to why the "scientific research" has been, well, doctored: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6mtQ1geeD_c https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6mtQ1geeD_c

ravenstine 8y ago

> Binary is bullshit. Um, no. Reality dictates that everything is based on relativity and probability, but the logic that everything technically falls into a grey area doesn't mean that abstractions like male and female, man and woman (silos that the vast vast majority of people fall into) aren't useful, practical, or real. If one believes that binary is bullshit, then be consistent and accept metaphysical nihilism. Accept that binary in computers is "bullshit" because a 1 can be represented by an infinite number of voltages, and sometimes 0 is represented by a really low voltage. Ignorant binary-normative CPUs! I don't care how people identify, how they have sex, how they love, etc. People should be able to express their true selves, but I'm getting tired of the constant disdain against normalcy. I've never quite fit in anywhere I go so I think I can understand what it's like to want society to conform to one's vision. Part of being a part of society is some level of conformity and accepting that other people aren't like you. If binary-non-conforming people want acceptance, then they ought to quit acting like my sex and my gender are bullshit. Gay people didn't achieve their current status in society, as better as it could be, by telling gay people that there's no such thing as "straight" sex. > Gender is about your identity, your expression, and it's often based on your idea of sex. If gender isn't related to the perception or expression of biological sex, then what is it? If sex is optional for gender, then how is gender different from fashion? I could go on point by point, but those two things really address most of the video. EDIT: For clarity, I'm not saying that I don't think that gender isn't a form of fashion. I'm saying that, if the variable of sex is removed, then it's a totally useless word that can be substituted with the word fashion. (in which case it's bizarre that people are trying to make other people like their sense of fashion)

senectus1 8y ago
Binary isn't bullshit, it's just irrelevant.
watwut 8y ago
First half is about intersex people who do not fit into those boxes. They are operated on infancy to fit into boxes. It is not like they would have any choice in the matter. They did not chose how they are born and they did not choose to be operated on. Intersex means that you have mix of male and female organs/hormons. Or you look like women, but don't have fitting chromosomes. Operation is done on theory that it will be easier for you this way. > If gender isn't related to the perception or expression of biological sex, then what is it? If sex is optional for gender, then how is gender different from fashion? Gender afaik is not all that different for fashion. Writing in general and especially poetry was considered male thing. It was weird for girl to do it. Now it is considered girl thing (at least where I live). Consciously and subconsciously, people do and don't do things based on what makes them look weird vs normal or popular or fitting in. Or they just follow cues (every boy in class got star wars sticker and every girl barbie one so they just follow that). My understanding of gender is that it is what you do cause of these things.

dopamean 8y ago

I cant help but feel like if gender norms weren't so rigid and people were allowed to express themselves however they feel comfortable without being stigmatized and judged then you wouldn't have people say (imo) crazy things like "my biology is the biology of a woman regardless of whether or not doctors agree." That honestly just feels like an extreme (and ignorant, again, imo) response to hatred and discrimination that people have experience in the past. "A trans woman's biology is a female biology" is just a statement I cannot agree with at all. One of my best friends growing up was a guy I'll call Adam. In high school Adam was an incredible athlete (he was a runner and swimmer) and held a lot of county records and was the third fastest at the 400m hurdles in the state. Adam came out as trans around his 21st birthday and now lives a woman I'll call Alice. Alice is a trans woman. The idea that her biology is that of a person born with two X chromosomes and a vagina is a little ridiculous to me. I see Alice as a woman today because that's what she wants and it doesn't make a difference to our friendship however I know Alice has a penis and spent 90% of her life living as a boy/man. FWIW, she and I have talked a lot about this and shares my views. In fact my views on the matter are largely influenced by her perspective on it.

weeksie 8y ago
100% I often wonder if the trans-rights movement is stuck in this kind of rhetorical cul-de-sac because the gay rights movement leaned so hard on "born this way" to make its case. That made sense because it moved the discussion away from sexual morality toward fairness. No doubt necessary to win the concessions and public opinion change of the 00s-10s. In reality it shouldn't matter how innate sexual preference or gender identity are. People should be free to identify and fuck as they please. Unfortunately some on the ultra-woke side of the trans rights movement have continued to paint themselves into the corner of "born this way" but then have to backfill their biological epistemology to fit their rhetoric.
- kzrdude 8y ago
  I haven't personally heard a trans story that conflicts with "born this way", to understand what I mean you'd use the perspective that it refers to both the body and the mind that inhabits it.

olivermarks 8y ago

Don't shoot the messenger down voting my post, I put it up for context. I find it odd that 'Teen Vogue' magazine should be showcasing these types of personal views as fact, as the comments on the Youtube video also discuss....

vonseel 8y ago
They shouldn't be pushing this stuff down teenager's throats, that's for sure. I'm fully supportive of equal rights for intersex people, among other disenfranchised groups, but this is ridiculous. They aren't going to get anywhere by saying "bodies are not male or female" or any of the other bullshit arguments in this video. Intersex is a real thing, apparently it's not just one specific thing[1] and it can manifest in different variations to the sex hormones. Intersex people should be treated fairly and equally. I don't know any intersex personally, but if I did, I hope that I could be an honest friend and treat them with compassion. All of that said, it isn't going to change my viewpoint that most people are either female or male; for the most part, there are only two genders. Are they asking us to consider that a third, unassigned gender is a normality and the world should be divided into more than two genders? You can identify as a robot, for all I care; but if you are born XX-chromosomal with a vagina, you're a woman, if you're born XY with a penis, you are a male. If you are born with some odd mixture of chromosome or sexual organs, then it's up to you to decide and I guess that's what the video is trying to say, after all. I'm not going to judge anyone for it. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intersex https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intersex
- fzeroracer 8y ago
  You're making the common mistake of equating gender with sex. Gender is how society expects a person to express themselves and how an individual identifies. Sex is the genetic component behind it. You also ignore the hormone component of gender expression. Someone could be born male, yet look feminine as a result of other factors and how they choose to express themselves. The reverse is true for women.
  - tree_of_item 8y ago

shereadsthenews 8y ago

Can we agree that the initialism "LGBTQIA+" must be stopped before it spreads?

CryoLogic 8y ago
I don't think there is anything wrong with advocating for rights and fair treatment which was the original goal of the movement. Much like in religion or politics the ones causing issues are the extremists in the LGBTQ community. The ones who ignore well researched biological fact in order to push their agendas, the ones that censor alternative viewpoints without a counterargument, and the ones who go to extreme measures to get attention via their preferences or to attempt to get privileges above equal level to those with more common preferences. The ones that need to be stopped are the extremist ones who are using it as a guise to push their own agendas, not those who just want equality and fair treatment.
- shereadsthenews 8y ago
  I'm talking about the linguistic construct. It has a plus sign at the end to indicate "and every other letter and symbol in the union of all known alphabets".
  - CryoLogic 8y ago
    Oh definitely. It's not very practical to invent a new name every time someone comes up with a new term. And all encompassing + is so vague it is almost irrelevant to add.
ben509 8y ago
It seems like "S+" for "sex-positive" pretty much captures the intent.

deleted 8y ago

[deleted]