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I think there was once a yogi or guru-type that criticized the denuclearization effort saying why get rid of nukes if we still have the mindset that can justify

I think there was once a yogi or guru-type that criticized the denuclearization effort saying why get rid of nukes if we still have the mindset that can justify using them? I can't help but think the same is true of AI or any technology that could be used for good or bad. We spend a lot of time trying to control the tools, but less time trying to improve culture and ethics of the operator.

canjobear 7y ago
We don’t know how to improve people’s ethics.
- BucketSort 7y ago
  Yes we do. You change the social goals. A materialist society will always bring us to the brink of destruction. Also, having poverty and fear loom over people is a terrible idea for the basis of a civil society.
  - macawfish 7y ago
    Wonderful perspective, thank you!
  - heavenlyblue 7y ago
    >> You change the social goals. How do you make the majority of the society believe in the same social goals without resorting to tales a-la Christianity during the fall of Roman Empire?
    - true_religion 7y ago
      If we can’t do without it, I see no reason to not resort to “tales”.
      - heavenlyblue 7y ago
        I have to admit that there might not even be a way to do that otherwise. You'll either need to make the whole of the humanity live in the sorts of Star Trek universe, where everyone is equally educated and is equally capable to critical thinking. Or you end up with the same system where the majority of people are obliged to give their absolute trust to the minority.
    - carapace 7y ago
      > How do you make the majority of the society believe in the same social goals without resorting to tales a-la Christianity during the fall of Roman Empire? In my opinion this is the key question.: How do we get everybody on board with e.g. UN Sustainable Development Goals[1] or something like them? [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sustainable_Development_Goals https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sustainable_Development_Goals
    - BucketSort 7y ago
      Well, you change the culture. Sometimes that takes the form of a religious revolution, sometimes more social revolutions.
heavenlyblue 7y ago
>> there was once a yogi or guru-type that criticized the denuclearization effort saying why get rid of nukes if we still have the mindset that can justify using them Probably because politicians are more aware of the realities of _current_ human nature rather than some future hypothetical that may never happen at all. Also there's an important point to be made that the powers that actually owned the majority of nuclear arsenal on the planet had enough missiles to destroy most of the human civilization.

canjobear 7y ago

We don’t know how to improve people’s ethics.

BucketSort 7y ago
Yes we do. You change the social goals. A materialist society will always bring us to the brink of destruction. Also, having poverty and fear loom over people is a terrible idea for the basis of a civil society.
- macawfish 7y ago
  Wonderful perspective, thank you!
- heavenlyblue 7y ago
  >> You change the social goals. How do you make the majority of the society believe in the same social goals without resorting to tales a-la Christianity during the fall of Roman Empire?
  - true_religion 7y ago
    If we can’t do without it, I see no reason to not resort to “tales”.
    - heavenlyblue 7y ago
      I have to admit that there might not even be a way to do that otherwise. You'll either need to make the whole of the humanity live in the sorts of Star Trek universe, where everyone is equally educated and is equally capable to critical thinking. Or you end up with the same system where the majority of people are obliged to give their absolute trust to the minority.
  - carapace 7y ago
    > How do you make the majority of the society believe in the same social goals without resorting to tales a-la Christianity during the fall of Roman Empire? In my opinion this is the key question.: How do we get everybody on board with e.g. UN Sustainable Development Goals[1] or something like them? [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sustainable_Development_Goals https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sustainable_Development_Goals
  - BucketSort 7y ago
    Well, you change the culture. Sometimes that takes the form of a religious revolution, sometimes more social revolutions.

heavenlyblue 7y ago

>> there was once a yogi or guru-type that criticized the denuclearization effort saying why get rid of nukes if we still have the mindset that can justify using them Probably because politicians are more aware of the realities of _current_ human nature rather than some future hypothetical that may never happen at all. Also there's an important point to be made that the powers that actually owned the majority of nuclear arsenal on the planet had enough missiles to destroy most of the human civilization.