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>but by extension that unions are evil, corrupt and lazy organizations infiltrated by organized crime. That's because, in the US, it's all true, historically.
by magduf 8y ago
>but by extension that unions are evil, corrupt and lazy organizations infiltrated by organized crime.
That's because, in the US, it's all true, historically. Auto unions were a big reason why Detroit's automakers were so uncompetitive against the Japanese automakers in the 80s; autoworkers got ridiculous pay for menial work, which is why Detroit moved a lot of their production to Mexico and Canada, and other automakers moved to Southern states where unions didn't exist.
The simple fact is that unions in the US in the latter half of the 20th century and beyond were nothing like unions in Germany, where by almost all accounts they seem to work out extremely well.
>Most people in Europe may not actively be a part of a union, but they normally recognize them as beneficial entities in the labor market
Yes, in Europe that's true. In America, it just hasn't been the case. It's just like public transit: in Germany, trains and subways are fantastic: they're inexpensive, clean, and efficient; whereas in America, they're an utter disaster: dirty, expensive, constant maintenance problems, and just a miserable experience. Try riding the subway in Munich, and then riding the subway in NYC or DC; there's just no comparison. The problem isn't that subways are bad, it's that subways in America are bad. Same goes for unions.
- justin66 8y agoWe've had singularly successful industries like Hollywood rely on unions as well - SAG, WGA, IATSE, etc. Their work bears a lot more similarity to software development than the auto industry does, so hopefully that is food for thought. It's fair enough to say that American auto unions (and very importantly, auto company management and ownership) would do well to model themselves after Germany's system. It's not a universal truth that all our unions are ineffective.
- hellllllllooo 8y agoExactly. People on here treat companies with nuance and analyze their pros and cons but often with unions they get lumped into the all unions are bad bucket without considering what aspects of unionizing are good and bad with any real depth. I could compare all companies to the worst examples too (e.g. all startups are Theranos) but that would never be taken seriously nor would it be fair yet somehow with unions that level of analysis is taken seriously.
- magduf 8y ago>It's fair enough to say that American auto unions (and very importantly, auto company management and ownership) would do well to model themselves after Germany's system. You could say that about many different things: if we just did it like the Germans, everything would be better, right? But how exactly do you actually do that? We're not Germany. You could go to Zimbabwe or El Salvador and tell them the same thing ("just be like the Germans or Japanese and you won't have all these social problems!"), but that isn't realistic; if it was that easy, every country would be copying the Germans and Japanese. As for a universal truth, I haven't seen any evidence yet that unions in America actually work well. In Germany, yes, but this isn't Germany.
- navigatesol 8y ago>which is why Detroit moved a lot of their production to Mexico and Canada Well, I'm pretty sure those auto jobs in Canada were also high paying and unionized. Source: I worked for one through University.
- magduf 8y ago>Well, I'm pretty sure those auto jobs in Canada were also high paying and unionized. That just supports my argument even more. It's not unions that are the problem, it's unions in America.
- stevenwoo 8y agoDon't know if it is still true but almost everyone at Boeing is part of the union, my college co-op student peers in the 1980's said they had to join the union even as electrical or aerospace engineers to work for a semester.
- systemBuilder 8y agoAuto Unions were blamed by corporate execs in the 1970s-2000s but the fact is the yen was undervalued at 250/dollar to 300/dollar in the 1980s up until 1999. Execs needed someone to blame or the board would fire their asses for not having the political connections to keep the car imports out..
- magduf 8y agoThe other big problem was that American cars at the time were poorly-designed, unreliable junk, and Japanese cars were great.
- prophesi 8y agoJust a minor note: Our terrible public transit is due to our society revolving around the motto "a chicken in every pot and a car in every garage." In my city, you can find overpasses that were purposely designed to not let buses fit through to further emphasize how "terrible" public transit is, and how we all need our own car. Those with money & power then moved into the Suburbs, and thereby even more legislation was made to ease suburbian transit.