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Right, but without the gig economy jobs they'd have less possibilities for income.

by howeyc 8y ago

bryanlarsen 8y ago
Without the gig economy jobs they could get welfare. But they don't qualify for welfare because gig economy jobs are available.
ivanbakel 8y ago
Which would also mean the need for real jobs is honestly represented. This is a major debate in West at the moment, and in the UK it's synonymous with the term "zero-hour contracts": is it somehow OK to suppress unemployment figures by nominally employing more people but giving each one a smaller share of all the labour, and so, wages? If the gig economy unsustainably employs people at cut-throat rates, then the statistics look good, and that spins the public opinion. Why would workers complain that they can't pay the bills if there are so many jobs out there? In fact, employment for peanuts is worse than no employment at all, because it is a lie perpetuated to try to avoid having to really deal with the issue of job poverty.
- howeyc 8y ago
  I don't understand what you're getting at. So offering someone employment (do this for money) should only be allowed if it's at a consistent frequency (full time) and at a guaranteed non-variable amount? What if the job they're being hired to do does not have consistent demand? Or the service provided has competition, or varying costs, which requires price changes?
  - ivanbakel 8y ago
    Yes. Workers should not be at the mercy of an unreliable paycheck. > What if... Can you give an example of what you're talking about?
    - p_roz 8y ago
      Think about the demand for tax preparers each year. Higher demand Jan-Apr. Lower demand the rest of the year. Should companies be forced to hire tax preparers full time year round or should they be free to contract for only when they are needed?
      - ivanbakel 8y ago
        That example isn't comparable to the kind of contracts that were originally being discussed. A contract with fixed hours on the scale of months doesn't have the same degree of stress as one with hours varying from day to day, week to week. Fixed term contracts are allowable, because taking that thinking to the extreme would mean never being able to terminate a worker, even in cases where their employment becomes obsolete. The issue revolves around "technically being employed" - having a contract which doesn't entail consistent or sufficient hours, and then not even having the choice to work enough to get by. This unfairly pumps employment figures for companies and the government, who can say that they have X workers, while denying an honest representation of how much people are actually able to work. My original question was - is there an example of a job which could justify these kinds of fluctuations in working hours and subsequent income?
        howeyc 8y ago
        There are so many, as a simple example, think basically any contractor that does work on houses. Painter, they can only work on days it's nice out. Kinda hard to paint when it's raining, and you can't get the day back.

Right, but without the gig economy jobs they'd have less possibilities for income.

by howeyc 8y ago

Right, but without the gig economy jobs they'd have less possibilities for income.

Without the gig economy jobs they could get welfare. But they don't qualify for welfare because gig economy jobs are available.

ivanbakel 8y ago

Which would also mean the need for real jobs is honestly represented. This is a major debate in West at the moment, and in the UK it's synonymous with the term "zero-hour contracts": is it somehow OK to suppress unemployment figures by nominally employing more people but giving each one a smaller share of all the labour, and so, wages? If the gig economy unsustainably employs people at cut-throat rates, then the statistics look good, and that spins the public opinion. Why would workers complain that they can't pay the bills if there are so many jobs out there? In fact, employment for peanuts is worse than no employment at all, because it is a lie perpetuated to try to avoid having to really deal with the issue of job poverty.

howeyc 8y ago
I don't understand what you're getting at. So offering someone employment (do this for money) should only be allowed if it's at a consistent frequency (full time) and at a guaranteed non-variable amount? What if the job they're being hired to do does not have consistent demand? Or the service provided has competition, or varying costs, which requires price changes?
- ivanbakel 8y ago
  Yes. Workers should not be at the mercy of an unreliable paycheck. > What if... Can you give an example of what you're talking about?
  - p_roz 8y ago
    Think about the demand for tax preparers each year. Higher demand Jan-Apr. Lower demand the rest of the year. Should companies be forced to hire tax preparers full time year round or should they be free to contract for only when they are needed?
    - ivanbakel 8y ago
      That example isn't comparable to the kind of contracts that were originally being discussed. A contract with fixed hours on the scale of months doesn't have the same degree of stress as one with hours varying from day to day, week to week. Fixed term contracts are allowable, because taking that thinking to the extreme would mean never being able to terminate a worker, even in cases where their employment becomes obsolete. The issue revolves around "technically being employed" - having a contract which doesn't entail consistent or sufficient hours, and then not even having the choice to work enough to get by. This unfairly pumps employment figures for companies and the government, who can say that they have X workers, while denying an honest representation of how much people are actually able to work. My original question was - is there an example of a job which could justify these kinds of fluctuations in working hours and subsequent income?
      - howeyc 8y ago
        There are so many, as a simple example, think basically any contractor that does work on houses. Painter, they can only work on days it's nice out. Kinda hard to paint when it's raining, and you can't get the day back.