6 ms·

Issue is, what would the charge be for a typical application for some basic business function, say scheduling attendance. So QPS really low, <5. But very sprea

Issue is, what would the charge be for a typical application for some basic business function, say scheduling attendance. So QPS really low, <5. But very spread out, as it's used during the workday by both team leader and team members. Every query results in a database query or maybe even 2 or 3. So every, say 20 minutes or so there's 4-5 database queries. Backend database is a few gigs, growing slowly. Let's say a schedule is ~10kb of data, and that has to be transferred on almost all queries, because that's what people are working on. That makes ~800 gig transfer per year. This would be equivalent to something you could easily store on say a linode or digital ocean 2 machine system, for $20 month or $240/year + having backup on your local machine. This would have the advantage that you can have 10 such apps on that same hardware with no extra cost. And if you really want to cheap out, you could easily host this with a PHP hoster for $10/year. So how do you calculate the AWS costs here ?

scarface74 8y ago
If you have a really low, spread out load, you could use Aurora Serverless (Mysql/Postgres) and spend even less if latency for the first request isn’t a big deal. And storage for AWS/RDS is .10/gb per month and that includes redundant online storage and backup. I’m sure I can tell my CTO we should ditch our AWS infrastructure that hosts our clients who each give us six figures each year to host on shared PHP provider and Linode.... And now we have to still manage local servers at a colo for backups.... We also wouldn’t have any trouble with any compliance using a shared PHP host.
- aprdm 8y ago
  You keep mentioning six figures contracts as it's something big. Most of fortune 500 companies have their own data center and still read database manuals somehow...
  - scarface74 8y ago
    No I’m mentioning our six figure customers because too often small companies are seen as being low margin B2C customers where you control for cost and you don’t have to be reliable, compliant, redundant or scalable from day one. One “customer” can equate to thousands of users. We are a B2B company with a sales team that ensures we charge more than enough to cover our infrastructure. Yes infrastructure cost scale with volume, but with a much lower slope. But it’s kind of the point, we save money by not having a dedicated infrastructure team, and save time and move faster because it’s not a month long process to provision resources and we don’t request more than we need like in large corporations because the turn around time is long. At most I send a message to my manager if it is going to cost more than I feel comfortable with and create resources using either a Python script or CloudFormation. How long do you think it would take for me to spin up a different combination of processing servers and database resources to see which one best meets our cost/performance tradeoff on prem?
    - aprdm 8y ago
      Depends on how you architecture it, theoretically spinning on prems or in baremetal or vsphere should be an ansible script with its roles and some docker file regardless. Just for reference we ""devops"" around 2 thousand VMs and 120 baremetal servers and a little of cloud stuff through same scripts and workflows. We don't really leverage locked in cloud things because we need the flexibility of on prems. In my business hardware is essentially a drop in the bucket of our costs. P.s: I totally think there are legit use cases for cloud, is just another tool you can leverage depending on the situation
      - scarface74 8y ago
        Spinning up on prem means you have to already the servers in your colo ready and have to pay for spare capacity. Depending on your tolerance for latency (production vs non-production environments or asynchronous batch processing), you can operate at almost 100% capacity all of the time: Lambda vs VMs (yes you can deploy standard web apps to Lambda using a lambda proxy) Serverless Aurora vs Regular Aurora. Tx instances vs regular instances Autoscaling VMs. Autoscaling DynomoDB Etc.
- candiodari 8y ago
  Redundant online storage sucks, doesn't protect you against DELETE FROM orders WHERE $condition_from_website; So that's just useless. You need offline backups. Is there something like, euhm, perhaps checkpoints, that you can use ?
  - scarface74 8y ago
    Yes, you can schedule automatic snapshots where it will take snapshots on a schedule you choose. You get as much space for your backups as you have in your database for free. Anything above that costs more. You also get point in time recovery with BackTrack. https://aws.amazon.com/blogs/aws/amazon-aurora-backtrack-turn-back-time/ https://aws.amazon.com/blogs/aws/amazon-aurora-backtrack-tur... The redundant storage is what gives you the synchronous read replicas that all use the same storage and the capability of having autoscalinv read replicas that are already in sync.
    - creatornator 8y ago
      > automatic snapshots where it will take snapshots on a schedule you choose So... A cronjob?
      - scarface74 8y ago
        Does your cron job allow recovery with a minute granularity? Is your cron job also redundant? How long would it take you to restore from backup?
        candiodari 8y ago
        You say that as if filesystems with point-in-time and/or checkpoint recovery are anything hard.
        scarface74 8y ago
        So if it “isn’t hard” then show me an implementation that does that with Mysql that can meet the same recovery time objectives as AWS with Aurora?

scarface74 8y ago

If you have a really low, spread out load, you could use Aurora Serverless (Mysql/Postgres) and spend even less if latency for the first request isn’t a big deal. And storage for AWS/RDS is .10/gb per month and that includes redundant online storage and backup. I’m sure I can tell my CTO we should ditch our AWS infrastructure that hosts our clients who each give us six figures each year to host on shared PHP provider and Linode.... And now we have to still manage local servers at a colo for backups.... We also wouldn’t have any trouble with any compliance using a shared PHP host.

aprdm 8y ago
You keep mentioning six figures contracts as it's something big. Most of fortune 500 companies have their own data center and still read database manuals somehow...
- scarface74 8y ago
  No I’m mentioning our six figure customers because too often small companies are seen as being low margin B2C customers where you control for cost and you don’t have to be reliable, compliant, redundant or scalable from day one. One “customer” can equate to thousands of users. We are a B2B company with a sales team that ensures we charge more than enough to cover our infrastructure. Yes infrastructure cost scale with volume, but with a much lower slope. But it’s kind of the point, we save money by not having a dedicated infrastructure team, and save time and move faster because it’s not a month long process to provision resources and we don’t request more than we need like in large corporations because the turn around time is long. At most I send a message to my manager if it is going to cost more than I feel comfortable with and create resources using either a Python script or CloudFormation. How long do you think it would take for me to spin up a different combination of processing servers and database resources to see which one best meets our cost/performance tradeoff on prem?
  - aprdm 8y ago
    Depends on how you architecture it, theoretically spinning on prems or in baremetal or vsphere should be an ansible script with its roles and some docker file regardless. Just for reference we ""devops"" around 2 thousand VMs and 120 baremetal servers and a little of cloud stuff through same scripts and workflows. We don't really leverage locked in cloud things because we need the flexibility of on prems. In my business hardware is essentially a drop in the bucket of our costs. P.s: I totally think there are legit use cases for cloud, is just another tool you can leverage depending on the situation
    - scarface74 8y ago
      Spinning up on prem means you have to already the servers in your colo ready and have to pay for spare capacity. Depending on your tolerance for latency (production vs non-production environments or asynchronous batch processing), you can operate at almost 100% capacity all of the time: Lambda vs VMs (yes you can deploy standard web apps to Lambda using a lambda proxy) Serverless Aurora vs Regular Aurora. Tx instances vs regular instances Autoscaling VMs. Autoscaling DynomoDB Etc.
candiodari 8y ago
Redundant online storage sucks, doesn't protect you against DELETE FROM orders WHERE $condition_from_website; So that's just useless. You need offline backups. Is there something like, euhm, perhaps checkpoints, that you can use ?
- scarface74 8y ago
  Yes, you can schedule automatic snapshots where it will take snapshots on a schedule you choose. You get as much space for your backups as you have in your database for free. Anything above that costs more. You also get point in time recovery with BackTrack. https://aws.amazon.com/blogs/aws/amazon-aurora-backtrack-turn-back-time/ https://aws.amazon.com/blogs/aws/amazon-aurora-backtrack-tur... The redundant storage is what gives you the synchronous read replicas that all use the same storage and the capability of having autoscalinv read replicas that are already in sync.
  - creatornator 8y ago
    > automatic snapshots where it will take snapshots on a schedule you choose So... A cronjob?
    - scarface74 8y ago
      Does your cron job allow recovery with a minute granularity? Is your cron job also redundant? How long would it take you to restore from backup?
      - candiodari 8y ago
        You say that as if filesystems with point-in-time and/or checkpoint recovery are anything hard.
        scarface74 8y ago
        So if it “isn’t hard” then show me an implementation that does that with Mysql that can meet the same recovery time objectives as AWS with Aurora?