4 ms·

People have stretched the concept quite far, but your example IS a stack with a meaningful concept of up and down. Can you replace the application while leavin

People have stretched the concept quite far, but your example IS a stack with a meaningful concept of up and down. Can you replace the application while leaving the OS in tact? Of course. Now try replacing the OS without impacting the other two.

taneq 8y ago
VirtualBox would like a word with you.
- indigochill 8y ago
  Let's say you have an Ubuntu OS in Virtualbox, and an application is running "on top" of Ubuntu. Now try swapping out the Ubuntu OS for Windows without affecting the application. It's nonsense, because an application only works when there's an OS to provide an abstraction layer for talking to hardware. Of course, there are applications that run on bare metal without that abstraction layer, but the point I'm making is that in stacks with an OS, an application "on top" of that OS is not independent of the OS even with virtualization.
  - taneq 8y ago
    It's not independent of the OS that it's expecting, obviously. But anything below that OS can be swapped out via virtualisation.
    - np_tedious 8y ago
      It still necessitates a restart, at the very least
astrobe_ 8y ago
The OSI model is stack with a top and a bottom, but each layer can be replaced, in theory. The processor stack and a software stack really are distinct things, because the "software stack" has the notion of interfaces at the top and the bottom of each layer. The fact that at the implementation level, the call stack sometimes mirrors the software stack is not really relevant. It's sort of accidental: each layer could be a process, connected with other layers by a pipe for instance.
- taneq 8y ago
  > but each layer can be replaced, in theory. That's literally the entire point of the abstraction. Each layer is independent and can do its thing without considering what other layers are doing. Of course, like all abstractions, it's leaky, which leads to things like Nagle's algorithm causing lag in MMORPGs when devs don't turn it off (no offense, Animats! :D )

taneq 8y ago

VirtualBox would like a word with you.

indigochill 8y ago
Let's say you have an Ubuntu OS in Virtualbox, and an application is running "on top" of Ubuntu. Now try swapping out the Ubuntu OS for Windows without affecting the application. It's nonsense, because an application only works when there's an OS to provide an abstraction layer for talking to hardware. Of course, there are applications that run on bare metal without that abstraction layer, but the point I'm making is that in stacks with an OS, an application "on top" of that OS is not independent of the OS even with virtualization.
- taneq 8y ago
  It's not independent of the OS that it's expecting, obviously. But anything below that OS can be swapped out via virtualisation.
  - np_tedious 8y ago
    It still necessitates a restart, at the very least

astrobe_ 8y ago

The OSI model is stack with a top and a bottom, but each layer can be replaced, in theory. The processor stack and a software stack really are distinct things, because the "software stack" has the notion of interfaces at the top and the bottom of each layer. The fact that at the implementation level, the call stack sometimes mirrors the software stack is not really relevant. It's sort of accidental: each layer could be a process, connected with other layers by a pipe for instance.

taneq 8y ago
> but each layer can be replaced, in theory. That's literally the entire point of the abstraction. Each layer is independent and can do its thing without considering what other layers are doing. Of course, like all abstractions, it's leaky, which leads to things like Nagle's algorithm causing lag in MMORPGs when devs don't turn it off (no offense, Animats! :D )