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I guess I might have phrased the question differently. I recently saw a video somewhere of Richard Dawkins talking about what he thinks of the possibility of ex

I guess I might have phrased the question differently. I recently saw a video somewhere of Richard Dawkins talking about what he thinks of the possibility of extraterrestrial life, and among other things he was talking about his high degree of certainty that whatever life may exist on other planets, it's likely to be subject to the same forces of natural selection as exist for life here on Earth. It would be very nice to have a second example to suggest, "wherever life happens, evolution as-we-know-it happens".

khafra 16y ago
If there's imperfect replication and death, natural selection happens. It's a mathematical fact; observation is unnecessary for confirmation. Although I haven't seen the video, and Dawkins is a smart guy, so perhaps he was making some related point.
- cosgroveb 16y ago
  This comment seems wrong to me. What if Einstein had said, "sorry, General Relativity is a mathematical fact; observation is unnecessary for confirmation" instead of proposing tests! Edit: Also, I think it would be just plain cool to observe natural selection in life that arose completely independently of our own. I don't think any reasonable person seriously doubts that natural selection is necessary for life.
  - Maciek416 16y ago
    Not only that but it would be interesting to see natural selection processes evolving using something other than what's familiar to us (DNA). If something like this were truly separate from us, wouldn't it have evolved its own genetic system (or equivalent) as well?
    - eru 16y ago
      Some bacteria and viri use RNA. But I guess that doesn't really count as being different enough from DNA.
  - bungula 16y ago
    Funny thing is, Einstein did in fact pretty much said it: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tests_of_general_relativity#Deflection_of_light_by_the_Sun http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tests_of_general_relativity#Def... "When asked by his assistant what his reaction would have been if general relativity had not been confirmed by Eddington and Dyson in 1919, Einstein famously made the quip: "Then I would feel sorry for the dear Lord. The theory is correct anyway.""
- gort 16y ago
  I think he was predicting/speculating that any complex life anywhere will have arisen through Darwinian selection; that there's no other process that leads from simple replicators to complex life. Video is here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vueDC69jRjE http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vueDC69jRjE Jump to 1:20.
- zokier 16y ago
  That's already two quite big assumptions. There might be other means of mutation than imperfect copying or no mutation at all. I also wouldn't rule out that there couldn't exist a ecosystem with no involuntary death. Space is a big and weird place.
  - deleted 16y ago
    [deleted]
xyzzyb 16y ago
Evolution isn't some process that's specific to life. It's just a term we use to describe what happens to a living system with external pressures. That same process happens to any system with external pressures. If I put a bucket in the rain, rain will collect in it. Someone coming along might exclaim, "See how perfectly that water has shaped itself to fit exactly into that bucket!"

khafra 16y ago

If there's imperfect replication and death, natural selection happens. It's a mathematical fact; observation is unnecessary for confirmation. Although I haven't seen the video, and Dawkins is a smart guy, so perhaps he was making some related point.

cosgroveb 16y ago
This comment seems wrong to me. What if Einstein had said, "sorry, General Relativity is a mathematical fact; observation is unnecessary for confirmation" instead of proposing tests! Edit: Also, I think it would be just plain cool to observe natural selection in life that arose completely independently of our own. I don't think any reasonable person seriously doubts that natural selection is necessary for life.
- Maciek416 16y ago
  Not only that but it would be interesting to see natural selection processes evolving using something other than what's familiar to us (DNA). If something like this were truly separate from us, wouldn't it have evolved its own genetic system (or equivalent) as well?
  - eru 16y ago
    Some bacteria and viri use RNA. But I guess that doesn't really count as being different enough from DNA.
- bungula 16y ago
  Funny thing is, Einstein did in fact pretty much said it: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tests_of_general_relativity#Deflection_of_light_by_the_Sun http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tests_of_general_relativity#Def... "When asked by his assistant what his reaction would have been if general relativity had not been confirmed by Eddington and Dyson in 1919, Einstein famously made the quip: "Then I would feel sorry for the dear Lord. The theory is correct anyway.""
gort 16y ago
I think he was predicting/speculating that any complex life anywhere will have arisen through Darwinian selection; that there's no other process that leads from simple replicators to complex life. Video is here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vueDC69jRjE http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vueDC69jRjE Jump to 1:20.
zokier 16y ago
That's already two quite big assumptions. There might be other means of mutation than imperfect copying or no mutation at all. I also wouldn't rule out that there couldn't exist a ecosystem with no involuntary death. Space is a big and weird place.
- deleted 16y ago
  [deleted]

xyzzyb 16y ago

Evolution isn't some process that's specific to life. It's just a term we use to describe what happens to a living system with external pressures. That same process happens to any system with external pressures. If I put a bucket in the rain, rain will collect in it. Someone coming along might exclaim, "See how perfectly that water has shaped itself to fit exactly into that bucket!"