5 ms·

> You think only Google needs to protect against data loss? Just have a cron job taking backups in a server and sending somewhere else? It has been working fo

by aprdm 8y ago

> You think only Google needs to protect against data loss? Just have a cron job taking backups in a server and sending somewhere else? It has been working for the last 40 years...

scarface74 8y ago
So a cron job can give me point in time recovery? Can a cron job give me automatic failover to another server that is in sync with the master? Can it give me autoscaling read replicas? Who is going to get up in the middle of the night when the cron job fails? Yes I am sure my company that has six and seven figure contracts would be just as well served self hosting MySQL on Linode.
- candiodari 8y ago
  OTOH the last "cloud" solution I've seen was a database that allowed a team to schedule itself. It was backed on Google cloud, had autoscaling backend. It was "serverless" (app engine), and had backups etc configured. Cost to run it for 4 years: $70000. QPS ? 5 was the highest I ever found. You don't need this capacity. You just don't. But it's got to be a good business to be in ...
  - scarface74 8y ago
    Instead of just assuming pricing based on Google pricing (which we weren’t talking about), you could always just find AWS pricing. https://aws.amazon.com/rds/aurora/pricing/ https://aws.amazon.com/rds/aurora/pricing/ Storage cost of 500Gb of data for four years - $2400 Backing up is free up to the amount of online storage. IO request are $0.12 per million. Transfer to/from VMs in the same availability zone is free. A r5.large reserved instance is $6600 a year. Of course if your needs are less, you could get much cheaper cpu and memory.
    - candiodari 8y ago
      Issue is, what would the charge be for a typical application for some basic business function, say scheduling attendance. So QPS really low, <5. But very spread out, as it's used during the workday by both team leader and team members. Every query results in a database query or maybe even 2 or 3. So every, say 20 minutes or so there's 4-5 database queries. Backend database is a few gigs, growing slowly. Let's say a schedule is ~10kb of data, and that has to be transferred on almost all queries, because that's what people are working on. That makes ~800 gig transfer per year. This would be equivalent to something you could easily store on say a linode or digital ocean 2 machine system, for $20 month or $240/year + having backup on your local machine. This would have the advantage that you can have 10 such apps on that same hardware with no extra cost. And if you really want to cheap out, you could easily host this with a PHP hoster for $10/year. So how do you calculate the AWS costs here ?
      - scarface74 8y ago
        If you have a really low, spread out load, you could use Aurora Serverless (Mysql/Postgres) and spend even less if latency for the first request isn’t a big deal. And storage for AWS/RDS is .10/gb per month and that includes redundant online storage and backup. I’m sure I can tell my CTO we should ditch our AWS infrastructure that hosts our clients who each give us six figures each year to host on shared PHP provider and Linode.... And now we have to still manage local servers at a colo for backups.... We also wouldn’t have any trouble with any compliance using a shared PHP host.
        aprdm 8y ago
        You keep mentioning six figures contracts as it's something big. Most of fortune 500 companies have their own data center and still read database manuals somehow...
        scarface74 8y ago
        No I’m mentioning our six figure customers because too often small companies are seen as being low margin B2C customers where you control for cost and you don’t have to be reliable, compliant, redundant or scalable from day one. One “customer” can equate to thousands of users. We are a B2B company with a sales team that ensures we charge more than enough to cover our infrastructure. Yes infrastructure cost scale with volume, but with a much lower slope. But it’s kind of the point, we save money by not having a dedicated infrastructure team, and save time and move faster because it’s not a month long process to provision resources and we don’t request more than we need like in large corporations because the turn around time is long. At most I send a message to my manager if it is going to cost more than I feel comfortable with and create resources using either a Python script or CloudFormation. How long do you think it would take for me to spin up a different combination of processing servers and database resources to see which one best meets our cost/performance tradeoff on prem?
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]

by aprdm 8y ago

> You think only Google needs to protect against data loss? Just have a cron job taking backups in a server and sending somewhere else? It has been working for the last 40 years...

scarface74 8y ago

So a cron job can give me point in time recovery? Can a cron job give me automatic failover to another server that is in sync with the master? Can it give me autoscaling read replicas? Who is going to get up in the middle of the night when the cron job fails? Yes I am sure my company that has six and seven figure contracts would be just as well served self hosting MySQL on Linode.

candiodari 8y ago
OTOH the last "cloud" solution I've seen was a database that allowed a team to schedule itself. It was backed on Google cloud, had autoscaling backend. It was "serverless" (app engine), and had backups etc configured. Cost to run it for 4 years: $70000. QPS ? 5 was the highest I ever found. You don't need this capacity. You just don't. But it's got to be a good business to be in ...
- scarface74 8y ago
  Instead of just assuming pricing based on Google pricing (which we weren’t talking about), you could always just find AWS pricing. https://aws.amazon.com/rds/aurora/pricing/ https://aws.amazon.com/rds/aurora/pricing/ Storage cost of 500Gb of data for four years - $2400 Backing up is free up to the amount of online storage. IO request are $0.12 per million. Transfer to/from VMs in the same availability zone is free. A r5.large reserved instance is $6600 a year. Of course if your needs are less, you could get much cheaper cpu and memory.
  - candiodari 8y ago
    Issue is, what would the charge be for a typical application for some basic business function, say scheduling attendance. So QPS really low, <5. But very spread out, as it's used during the workday by both team leader and team members. Every query results in a database query or maybe even 2 or 3. So every, say 20 minutes or so there's 4-5 database queries. Backend database is a few gigs, growing slowly. Let's say a schedule is ~10kb of data, and that has to be transferred on almost all queries, because that's what people are working on. That makes ~800 gig transfer per year. This would be equivalent to something you could easily store on say a linode or digital ocean 2 machine system, for $20 month or $240/year + having backup on your local machine. This would have the advantage that you can have 10 such apps on that same hardware with no extra cost. And if you really want to cheap out, you could easily host this with a PHP hoster for $10/year. So how do you calculate the AWS costs here ?
    - scarface74 8y ago
      If you have a really low, spread out load, you could use Aurora Serverless (Mysql/Postgres) and spend even less if latency for the first request isn’t a big deal. And storage for AWS/RDS is .10/gb per month and that includes redundant online storage and backup. I’m sure I can tell my CTO we should ditch our AWS infrastructure that hosts our clients who each give us six figures each year to host on shared PHP provider and Linode.... And now we have to still manage local servers at a colo for backups.... We also wouldn’t have any trouble with any compliance using a shared PHP host.
      - aprdm 8y ago
        You keep mentioning six figures contracts as it's something big. Most of fortune 500 companies have their own data center and still read database manuals somehow...
        scarface74 8y ago
        No I’m mentioning our six figure customers because too often small companies are seen as being low margin B2C customers where you control for cost and you don’t have to be reliable, compliant, redundant or scalable from day one. One “customer” can equate to thousands of users. We are a B2B company with a sales team that ensures we charge more than enough to cover our infrastructure. Yes infrastructure cost scale with volume, but with a much lower slope. But it’s kind of the point, we save money by not having a dedicated infrastructure team, and save time and move faster because it’s not a month long process to provision resources and we don’t request more than we need like in large corporations because the turn around time is long. At most I send a message to my manager if it is going to cost more than I feel comfortable with and create resources using either a Python script or CloudFormation. How long do you think it would take for me to spin up a different combination of processing servers and database resources to see which one best meets our cost/performance tradeoff on prem?
deleted 8y ago
[deleted]