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What happened to the women in tech is that the clerical jobs were all replaced by computers. I'm still not clear how office work has improved by me not having

by antt 8y ago

What happened to the women in tech is that the clerical jobs were all replaced by computers. I'm still not clear how office work has improved by me not having a secretary. The two hours a day I waste on email, meeting planning etc would pay someone a comfortable wage and mean I don't have to be bothered all the time by emails that I probably don't need to answer, unless it's from those two people. In my current gig we have an actual full time office manager and it's fucking amazing.

nostrademons 8y ago
The women who used to be secretaries (some subset of them, at least) are now lawyers, doctors, investors, managers, engineers, etc. That's always been the point of eliminating jobs: it frees up the people who used to do those jobs to do other things.
- antt 8y ago
  The jobs created in the last 20 years have been worse paid and less secure than the jobs that were destroyed. The granddaughters of the 60s secretaries are baristas, nurses, cleaners, retail workers and other jobs with terrible working conditions and security. That's the problem of the current system, losing jobs is fine as long as they are replaced by better jobs. When they are replaced by worse jobs you have a broken system. And we have a very broken system.
- claudiawerner 8y ago
  Ironically it doesn't free up the people who used to do them to go about doing what they want with their time - it only frees them up in the same way that the computer will free up memory, the people are able to be allocated to other places in the economy. The observation that automation tends not to free people in any genuine sense even runs against Keynes' predictions for how much we'd be working today.
jlg23 8y ago
when people talk about "women in tech" they usually don't mean secretaries but women doing mathematics, engineering and programming. PS: The best secretary I ever had was male; some of the smartest CS-folks I know are women.
- antt 8y ago
  That you've had a secretary either puts you at an age where you have no idea what the labour market has been like in the last 20 years or at an income level where you have no idea what the majority of tech work has been like in the last 20 years.
laumars 8y ago
> I'm still not clear how office work has improved by me not having a secretary The problem is the "improvement" is a financial one for the company rather than a workflow improvement at the employee level.
keithpeter 8y ago
UK, non-government public sector, very senior people still have secretaries - often described as personal assistants. The PAs handle interfacing and information flow, the senior people can get on with the thinking.
- C1sc0cat 8y ago
  A PA is not a secretary years ago I worked on organising a large event and one of the committee member was the PA to the county fire chief. She was awesome, at the first meeting she had worked out from previous years all the key things the other members of the committee needed to do - written all the letters and handed them to us to sign.
  - zcid 8y ago
    That sounds exactly like a secretary.

by antt 8y ago

nostrademons 8y ago

The women who used to be secretaries (some subset of them, at least) are now lawyers, doctors, investors, managers, engineers, etc. That's always been the point of eliminating jobs: it frees up the people who used to do those jobs to do other things.

antt 8y ago
The jobs created in the last 20 years have been worse paid and less secure than the jobs that were destroyed. The granddaughters of the 60s secretaries are baristas, nurses, cleaners, retail workers and other jobs with terrible working conditions and security. That's the problem of the current system, losing jobs is fine as long as they are replaced by better jobs. When they are replaced by worse jobs you have a broken system. And we have a very broken system.
claudiawerner 8y ago
Ironically it doesn't free up the people who used to do them to go about doing what they want with their time - it only frees them up in the same way that the computer will free up memory, the people are able to be allocated to other places in the economy. The observation that automation tends not to free people in any genuine sense even runs against Keynes' predictions for how much we'd be working today.

jlg23 8y ago

when people talk about "women in tech" they usually don't mean secretaries but women doing mathematics, engineering and programming. PS: The best secretary I ever had was male; some of the smartest CS-folks I know are women.

antt 8y ago
That you've had a secretary either puts you at an age where you have no idea what the labour market has been like in the last 20 years or at an income level where you have no idea what the majority of tech work has been like in the last 20 years.

laumars 8y ago

> I'm still not clear how office work has improved by me not having a secretary The problem is the "improvement" is a financial one for the company rather than a workflow improvement at the employee level.

keithpeter 8y ago

UK, non-government public sector, very senior people still have secretaries - often described as personal assistants. The PAs handle interfacing and information flow, the senior people can get on with the thinking.

C1sc0cat 8y ago
A PA is not a secretary years ago I worked on organising a large event and one of the committee member was the PA to the county fire chief. She was awesome, at the first meeting she had worked out from previous years all the key things the other members of the committee needed to do - written all the letters and handed them to us to sign.
- zcid 8y ago
  That sounds exactly like a secretary.