5 ms·

> The took the necessary steps and it was working until they went off script. Whether or not their hand was force because the script stopped working remains to

> The took the necessary steps and it was working until they went off script. Whether or not their hand was force because the script stopped working remains to be seen The script required them to manually crank in the stabilizer, which wasn't possible. The script was manifestly not "working". That doesn't "remain to be seen" -- it's in the transcript of the cockpit

treis 8y ago
Yes, people are speculating this and like the previous speculation they're probably wrong.
- msbarnett 8y ago
  > At 05:40:35, the First-Officer called out “stab trim cut-out” two times. Captain agreed and First- Officer confirmed stab trim cut-out. > At 05:41:46, the Captain asked the First-Officer if the trim is functional. The First-Officer has replied that the trim was not working and asked if he could try it manually. The Captain told him to try. At 05:41:54, the First-Officer replied that it is not working. I guess the First-Officer must have been speculating...
  - kayfox 8y ago
    Its not clear if the pilots meant trimming it manually with the switches or with the trim wheel.
  - treis 8y ago
    Pilots are often wrong about what their aircraft is doing. In fact, that's a big reason why they crash. So yes, the First Officer said that but that is not conclusive proof that they couldn't manually trim. He may have misinterpreted the question and tried the electric trim again. Or maybe he tried turning the wheel and didn't do it right. Or maybe he needed to try again. Or maybe he needed the pilots help. Or maybe the manual trim system was broken. There's any number of explanations for that statement. Until someone sits down and calculates the torque needed to manually trim it's all just speculation.
    - cjbprime 8y ago
      Bear in mind that they're at low altitude and the pilot is busy supplying maximum pull on the yoke, and therefore likely unavailable to help crank a stiff trim wheel.
      - treis 8y ago
        >Bear in mind that they're at low altitude They weren't >the pilot is busy supplying maximum pull on the yoke, Probably not true either >and therefore likely unavailable to help crank a stiff trim wheel Runaway trim should be a recoverable situation. If that's impossible then that means there is a distinct and major issue beyond MCAS.
        ddalex 8y ago
        I wouldn't feed the troll, but I don't want your misinformation to spread. > They weren't They just took off, max height of the airplane was 1000 feet above the ground. That's a definely low altitude. > Runaway trim should be a recoverable situation. The trim pointed the nose down. The aerodynamic forces were so high on the elevator that the trim wheels could not be moved by a single person. This was confirmed in 737 simulator.
        treis 8y ago
        >They just took off, max height of the airplane was 1000 feet above the ground. That's a definely low altitude. People thought that based on Flightaware data. But if you actually read the report you will see that it is incorrect and they reached about 7,000 feet. >The trim pointed the nose down. Incorrect. The plane was steadily gaining altitude until they re-enabled electric trim. >I wouldn't feed the troll, but I don't want your misinformation to spread. Try being right before throwing around personal insults.
        ddalex 8y ago
        we must not be reading the same report. I'm speaking specifically about this one: https://avherald.com/h?article=4c534c4a/0023&opt=0 https://avherald.com/h?article=4c534c4a/0023&opt=0 which points clearly to MCAS applying maximum nose down, based on incorrect data from the left alpha sensor, both pilots pulling on their control sticks, and the aircraft failing to gain altitude even before final MCAS activation because the trim could not be manually reset by the F/O. this report contradicts every element that you're pushing (plane reached altitude, pilots didn't pull on the column, the electric trim was not needed, MCAS did not intervene). did I missing anything ?

treis 8y ago

Yes, people are speculating this and like the previous speculation they're probably wrong.

msbarnett 8y ago
> At 05:40:35, the First-Officer called out “stab trim cut-out” two times. Captain agreed and First- Officer confirmed stab trim cut-out. > At 05:41:46, the Captain asked the First-Officer if the trim is functional. The First-Officer has replied that the trim was not working and asked if he could try it manually. The Captain told him to try. At 05:41:54, the First-Officer replied that it is not working. I guess the First-Officer must have been speculating...
- kayfox 8y ago
  Its not clear if the pilots meant trimming it manually with the switches or with the trim wheel.
- treis 8y ago
  Pilots are often wrong about what their aircraft is doing. In fact, that's a big reason why they crash. So yes, the First Officer said that but that is not conclusive proof that they couldn't manually trim. He may have misinterpreted the question and tried the electric trim again. Or maybe he tried turning the wheel and didn't do it right. Or maybe he needed to try again. Or maybe he needed the pilots help. Or maybe the manual trim system was broken. There's any number of explanations for that statement. Until someone sits down and calculates the torque needed to manually trim it's all just speculation.
  - cjbprime 8y ago
    Bear in mind that they're at low altitude and the pilot is busy supplying maximum pull on the yoke, and therefore likely unavailable to help crank a stiff trim wheel.
    - treis 8y ago
      >Bear in mind that they're at low altitude They weren't >the pilot is busy supplying maximum pull on the yoke, Probably not true either >and therefore likely unavailable to help crank a stiff trim wheel Runaway trim should be a recoverable situation. If that's impossible then that means there is a distinct and major issue beyond MCAS.
      - ddalex 8y ago
        I wouldn't feed the troll, but I don't want your misinformation to spread. > They weren't They just took off, max height of the airplane was 1000 feet above the ground. That's a definely low altitude. > Runaway trim should be a recoverable situation. The trim pointed the nose down. The aerodynamic forces were so high on the elevator that the trim wheels could not be moved by a single person. This was confirmed in 737 simulator.
        treis 8y ago
        >They just took off, max height of the airplane was 1000 feet above the ground. That's a definely low altitude. People thought that based on Flightaware data. But if you actually read the report you will see that it is incorrect and they reached about 7,000 feet. >The trim pointed the nose down. Incorrect. The plane was steadily gaining altitude until they re-enabled electric trim. >I wouldn't feed the troll, but I don't want your misinformation to spread. Try being right before throwing around personal insults.
        ddalex 8y ago
        we must not be reading the same report. I'm speaking specifically about this one: https://avherald.com/h?article=4c534c4a/0023&opt=0 https://avherald.com/h?article=4c534c4a/0023&opt=0 which points clearly to MCAS applying maximum nose down, based on incorrect data from the left alpha sensor, both pilots pulling on their control sticks, and the aircraft failing to gain altitude even before final MCAS activation because the trim could not be manually reset by the F/O. this report contradicts every element that you're pushing (plane reached altitude, pilots didn't pull on the column, the electric trim was not needed, MCAS did not intervene). did I missing anything ?