4 ms·

First of all, force isn't violence. Nobody beats you for failing to pay your taxes. Second of all, you do consent. You have freedom of speech to express your d

by sdurkin 18y ago

First of all, force isn't violence. Nobody beats you for failing to pay your taxes. Second of all, you do consent. You have freedom of speech to express your displeasure, and a vote to rid yourself of unjust leaders. Taxes are the price we pay to live in a civilized society. They build our roads and pay our soldiers, and I'm sick and tired of some people acting like they're a form of theft.

anamax 18y ago
> First of all, force isn't violence. Nobody beats you for failing to pay your taxes. Oh really? We put people in jail for failing to pay taxes. People get killed in jail. They get beat and raped. > Second of all, you do consent. You have freedom of speech to express your displeasure, and a vote to rid yourself of unjust leaders. If five guys vote that a woman should put out, she consents because she's free to say no and can vote against their proposal. > Taxes are the price we pay to live in a civilized society. They build our roads and pay our soldiers, and I'm sick and tired of some people acting like they're a form of theft. Note that they also pay for a lot of other things; things that simply don't work. SDurkin suggests a social contract. In every other contract, you can refuse the deal. You can also get out of the contract if the other side doesn't live up to its obligations. The "social contract" in reality is neither social nor a contract.
- sdurkin 18y ago
  "Oh really? We put people in jail for failing to pay taxes. People get killed in jail. They get beat and raped." Yes, really. Victimization in prison isn't part of the state's intent or action. Its an unfortunate consequence of a poorly managed correctional system. One that would see far fewer prisoners if there were more poverty assistance programs. "If five guys vote that a woman should put out, she consents because she's free to say no and can vote against their proposal." See above for a full explanation of how constitutional democracies prevent tyranny of the majority. "Note that they also pay for a lot of other things; things that simply don't work." This is a problem with certain specific programs, not with taxes in general. "SDurkin suggests a social contract." Yes, I do suggest a social contract, because social contract theory is part of the foundation of our and every other modern democracy. Sure, it isn't perfect, but its certainly better than the alternatives.
  - byrneseyeview 18y ago
    How did the Commerce Clause protect me from being regulated by the Federal government?
  - fff123 18y ago
    > Victimization in prison isn't part of the state's intent or action. Let's assume for the moment that this statement is true. That does not in any way absolve the state from moral accountability when it sends people there. Since prisons, in reality, are set up in such a way that brutal violence is a given, it is neither here nor there what they wish it were like. You sentence people to the prisons you have, not the ones you wish you had. Imagine you have a time-out room for misbehaving children, which has been infested with human-eating alligators. "It's an unfortunate consequence of your running in the halls that you will be devoured by alligators, but it's not my intent or action. I just mean for you to have a 15-minute time out, and it's not my responsibility if my putting you there -- by force, into what I intend to be a nice quiet room -- is actually a death sentence."
xlnt 18y ago
Do you not understand that dragging a person to jail, when he wishes to stay in his home, is violent? That physical force exerted on his body, against his will, is violent? Do you not understand that it hurts people? Do you not understand that demands, backed by guns, are violent? Never mind whether it's for the best in the grand scheme of things, or whether a superior alternative is known. Even if this is best it is still violent.

by sdurkin 18y ago

anamax 18y ago

> First of all, force isn't violence. Nobody beats you for failing to pay your taxes. Oh really? We put people in jail for failing to pay taxes. People get killed in jail. They get beat and raped. > Second of all, you do consent. You have freedom of speech to express your displeasure, and a vote to rid yourself of unjust leaders. If five guys vote that a woman should put out, she consents because she's free to say no and can vote against their proposal. > Taxes are the price we pay to live in a civilized society. They build our roads and pay our soldiers, and I'm sick and tired of some people acting like they're a form of theft. Note that they also pay for a lot of other things; things that simply don't work. SDurkin suggests a social contract. In every other contract, you can refuse the deal. You can also get out of the contract if the other side doesn't live up to its obligations. The "social contract" in reality is neither social nor a contract.

sdurkin 18y ago
"Oh really? We put people in jail for failing to pay taxes. People get killed in jail. They get beat and raped." Yes, really. Victimization in prison isn't part of the state's intent or action. Its an unfortunate consequence of a poorly managed correctional system. One that would see far fewer prisoners if there were more poverty assistance programs. "If five guys vote that a woman should put out, she consents because she's free to say no and can vote against their proposal." See above for a full explanation of how constitutional democracies prevent tyranny of the majority. "Note that they also pay for a lot of other things; things that simply don't work." This is a problem with certain specific programs, not with taxes in general. "SDurkin suggests a social contract." Yes, I do suggest a social contract, because social contract theory is part of the foundation of our and every other modern democracy. Sure, it isn't perfect, but its certainly better than the alternatives.
- byrneseyeview 18y ago
  How did the Commerce Clause protect me from being regulated by the Federal government?
- fff123 18y ago
  > Victimization in prison isn't part of the state's intent or action. Let's assume for the moment that this statement is true. That does not in any way absolve the state from moral accountability when it sends people there. Since prisons, in reality, are set up in such a way that brutal violence is a given, it is neither here nor there what they wish it were like. You sentence people to the prisons you have, not the ones you wish you had. Imagine you have a time-out room for misbehaving children, which has been infested with human-eating alligators. "It's an unfortunate consequence of your running in the halls that you will be devoured by alligators, but it's not my intent or action. I just mean for you to have a 15-minute time out, and it's not my responsibility if my putting you there -- by force, into what I intend to be a nice quiet room -- is actually a death sentence."

xlnt 18y ago

Do you not understand that dragging a person to jail, when he wishes to stay in his home, is violent? That physical force exerted on his body, against his will, is violent? Do you not understand that it hurts people? Do you not understand that demands, backed by guns, are violent? Never mind whether it's for the best in the grand scheme of things, or whether a superior alternative is known. Even if this is best it is still violent.