4 ms·

>The FAA also lost a lot of trust, for rubber-stamping this. I wonder if the European agency (don't remember the name) will stop trusting the FAA from now on a

by 93s6oz 8y ago

>The FAA also lost a lot of trust, for rubber-stamping this. I wonder if the European agency (don't remember the name) will stop trusting the FAA from now on and do their own tests. I'd thank them for that. (According to what I read here, the European agency doesn't do exhaustive tests because they mostly trust whatever the FAA says; maybe that's false)

CaptainZapp 8y ago
According to what I read here, the European agency doesn't do exhaustive tests because they mostly trust whatever the FAA says That's true. The FAA had a stellar record as a certification agency, which, it can be argued, they fucked in three days (sure, the hole history of this sad debacle is more complex. But by keeping the plane in the air longer than any other certification body in order to not hurt their buddies at Boeing they completely ruined their reputation, which was built in decades of good work). I can't imagine that any responsible certification body anywhere trusts the FAA anymore without a complete and significant shakeup. It's a sad story, really.
matt4077 8y ago
Europe and the FAA have Cross-certification schemes. In reverse, Airbus is certified primarily in Europe. The same happens to varying degrees in medicines, appliances, etc. This is unlikely to change. It’s expected that some changes will occur at the FAA. Certifying an airliner is also a prohibitively expensive undertaking, which is part of the reason for this mess in the first place. It would take years even to train enough personnel to duplicate all those efforts.
- FearNotDaniel 7y ago
  Agreed. But the EASA ought to be at least in a position to put pressure on FAA to put their house in order. You can add this to my very long list of reasons why the UK really ought to decide to remain in a position of influence within the EU instead of choosing to join the Trumpist libertarian shitshow those far-right loons are trying to push us into.
FabHK 8y ago
> European agency EASA. FWIW, the Brazilian regulator (whose name I don't remember...) did not rubber-stamp the FAA's type certification of the 737 MAX, and required some differences training for MCAS, IIRC.
- jefftk 8y ago
  Very curious whether the additional Brazilian MCAS training would have helped, given how strange its behavior appears in practice.
  - FabHK 7y ago
    Good question. Would be interesting to hear what (if any) additional training pilots there got. And, yes, the Ethiopian Air pilots apparently did follow the procedures initially, flipping the Stab Trim Cutout switches, but did not manage to recenter the trim manually (via the trim wheel), so apparently re-enabled electric trim, and then let MCAS drive the trim even further down to their doom. :-/

by 93s6oz 8y ago

CaptainZapp 8y ago

According to what I read here, the European agency doesn't do exhaustive tests because they mostly trust whatever the FAA says That's true. The FAA had a stellar record as a certification agency, which, it can be argued, they fucked in three days (sure, the hole history of this sad debacle is more complex. But by keeping the plane in the air longer than any other certification body in order to not hurt their buddies at Boeing they completely ruined their reputation, which was built in decades of good work). I can't imagine that any responsible certification body anywhere trusts the FAA anymore without a complete and significant shakeup. It's a sad story, really.

matt4077 8y ago

Europe and the FAA have Cross-certification schemes. In reverse, Airbus is certified primarily in Europe. The same happens to varying degrees in medicines, appliances, etc. This is unlikely to change. It’s expected that some changes will occur at the FAA. Certifying an airliner is also a prohibitively expensive undertaking, which is part of the reason for this mess in the first place. It would take years even to train enough personnel to duplicate all those efforts.

FearNotDaniel 7y ago
Agreed. But the EASA ought to be at least in a position to put pressure on FAA to put their house in order. You can add this to my very long list of reasons why the UK really ought to decide to remain in a position of influence within the EU instead of choosing to join the Trumpist libertarian shitshow those far-right loons are trying to push us into.

FabHK 8y ago

> European agency EASA. FWIW, the Brazilian regulator (whose name I don't remember...) did not rubber-stamp the FAA's type certification of the 737 MAX, and required some differences training for MCAS, IIRC.

jefftk 8y ago
Very curious whether the additional Brazilian MCAS training would have helped, given how strange its behavior appears in practice.
- FabHK 7y ago
  Good question. Would be interesting to hear what (if any) additional training pilots there got. And, yes, the Ethiopian Air pilots apparently did follow the procedures initially, flipping the Stab Trim Cutout switches, but did not manage to recenter the trim manually (via the trim wheel), so apparently re-enabled electric trim, and then let MCAS drive the trim even further down to their doom. :-/