5 ms·

So? ATMs are everywhere. If you need to access transit in a pinch, you can just take out some cash. It's the universal fallback payment.

stephencoyner 8y ago
Most transit systems do not provide any change. So if you go to an ATM and get $20, then break it for a $2.00 fare, you lose $18.00. That's not a solution.
- AnthonyMouse 8y ago
  I bought a train ticket the other day from a vending machine. You put in a $20 and it spits out a ticket and your change. Systems that are incapable of doing this are designed poorly. That is not a shortcoming of cash or technology, it is a shortcoming of the transit operator.
  - stephencoyner 8y ago
    That's not the only issue. Cash also slows down the system. If I shove my crumpled dollar bill into the machine it will slow down the whole route, adding cost for the agency. The agency then has to have staff to count the cash, then hire an armored car to take it to a bank. It's not that simple.
    - AnthonyMouse 8y ago
      This is why you have tickets or transit tokens. You can buy one on the bus/train, but then it costs 30% more and so nobody does that. Then you can buy a token using any payment method you like, whenever you like. Buy them from a vending machine at the train station with cash, order a month's worth on your credit card and have them shipped to your home, whatever you prefer. Dropping an exact value coin into a machine is a solved problem, is reliable, instantaneous, has automatic redundancy in high volume locations because there will be multiple machines, protects privacy, etc. > The agency then has to have staff to count the cash, then hire an armored car to take it to a bank. It's not that simple. That is not a significant cost. The service is paid a small amount of money to collect a much larger amount of money, and if you do more frequent pickups then less security is required and the ratio stays low. Meanwhile with cash you don't have to deal with chargebacks, computer intrusions, processing fees, etc.
    - rcw4256 8y ago
      Parent comment is referring to a ticket vending machine external to the coach, not an on-coach bill acceptor. It does not slow down the route.
lemoncucumber 8y ago
Have you ever taken a bus? Every bus I've ever taken doesn't give change, so it's not a matter of just getting a $20 bill from an ATM and being good to go. You have to have exact change (and often it's not an even dollar amount which is that much more of a pain). Plus, people paying cash slow down the bus as they fumble for their wallets and count out their coins and such. If enough people pay cash, it slows down the bus significantly. We should be trying to get to the point where nobody pays cash when boarding buses for this reason alone.
- darren_ 8y ago
  > Plus, people paying cash slow down the bus as they fumble for their wallets and count out their coins and such. Around here, on board the busses, they have completely automated machines that can read all the notes and dispense change automatically, they even seem pretty robust at it (crumpled bills, etc work fine) - they essentially as good a job as it's possible to do with cash. And it still takes agonizingly longer than tapping a transit card and everyone else on the bus hates you.
astrodust 8y ago
Yes, I too love paying exorbitant fees for the privilege of taking money out of an ATM. I pay $0 for debit transactions, but anywhere from $1 to $4 for an ATM withdrawal.
- frosted-flakes 8y ago
  Use your bank's ATM then.
  - astrodust 8y ago
    This is so practical.
- azeotropic 8y ago
  You should switch banks or join a credit union.
  - astrodust 8y ago
    Why? So I can take filthy money I never use out of an ATM I don't want to use?
jchw 8y ago
Not ever carrying cash is just as much a defense measure as it is a practical measure, though also almost everything supports some form of electronic payments, be it in the form of plastic or phone.

stephencoyner 8y ago

Most transit systems do not provide any change. So if you go to an ATM and get $20, then break it for a $2.00 fare, you lose $18.00. That's not a solution.

AnthonyMouse 8y ago
I bought a train ticket the other day from a vending machine. You put in a $20 and it spits out a ticket and your change. Systems that are incapable of doing this are designed poorly. That is not a shortcoming of cash or technology, it is a shortcoming of the transit operator.
- stephencoyner 8y ago
  That's not the only issue. Cash also slows down the system. If I shove my crumpled dollar bill into the machine it will slow down the whole route, adding cost for the agency. The agency then has to have staff to count the cash, then hire an armored car to take it to a bank. It's not that simple.
  - AnthonyMouse 8y ago
    This is why you have tickets or transit tokens. You can buy one on the bus/train, but then it costs 30% more and so nobody does that. Then you can buy a token using any payment method you like, whenever you like. Buy them from a vending machine at the train station with cash, order a month's worth on your credit card and have them shipped to your home, whatever you prefer. Dropping an exact value coin into a machine is a solved problem, is reliable, instantaneous, has automatic redundancy in high volume locations because there will be multiple machines, protects privacy, etc. > The agency then has to have staff to count the cash, then hire an armored car to take it to a bank. It's not that simple. That is not a significant cost. The service is paid a small amount of money to collect a much larger amount of money, and if you do more frequent pickups then less security is required and the ratio stays low. Meanwhile with cash you don't have to deal with chargebacks, computer intrusions, processing fees, etc.
  - rcw4256 8y ago
    Parent comment is referring to a ticket vending machine external to the coach, not an on-coach bill acceptor. It does not slow down the route.

lemoncucumber 8y ago

Have you ever taken a bus? Every bus I've ever taken doesn't give change, so it's not a matter of just getting a $20 bill from an ATM and being good to go. You have to have exact change (and often it's not an even dollar amount which is that much more of a pain). Plus, people paying cash slow down the bus as they fumble for their wallets and count out their coins and such. If enough people pay cash, it slows down the bus significantly. We should be trying to get to the point where nobody pays cash when boarding buses for this reason alone.

darren_ 8y ago
> Plus, people paying cash slow down the bus as they fumble for their wallets and count out their coins and such. Around here, on board the busses, they have completely automated machines that can read all the notes and dispense change automatically, they even seem pretty robust at it (crumpled bills, etc work fine) - they essentially as good a job as it's possible to do with cash. And it still takes agonizingly longer than tapping a transit card and everyone else on the bus hates you.

astrodust 8y ago

Yes, I too love paying exorbitant fees for the privilege of taking money out of an ATM. I pay $0 for debit transactions, but anywhere from $1 to $4 for an ATM withdrawal.

frosted-flakes 8y ago
Use your bank's ATM then.
- astrodust 8y ago
  This is so practical.
azeotropic 8y ago
You should switch banks or join a credit union.
- astrodust 8y ago
  Why? So I can take filthy money I never use out of an ATM I don't want to use?

jchw 8y ago

Not ever carrying cash is just as much a defense measure as it is a practical measure, though also almost everything supports some form of electronic payments, be it in the form of plastic or phone.