3 ms·

I don't know that normal contactless cards (Visa, Mastercard, Discover, etc.) couldn't be used as-is. Tap on >> full charge. Tap off >> short trip refund. Here

I don't know that normal contactless cards (Visa, Mastercard, Discover, etc.) couldn't be used as-is. Tap on >> full charge. Tap off >> short trip refund. Here in southern Ontario, Metrolinx Presto cards work this way, and I don't see anything about them that can't be accomplished with standard contactless credit cards.

esotericn 8y ago
In London (UK) you just get charged the next day. No pre-charge. The chances of someone having a card that won't accept a ten quid charge is fairly minimal and TfL just ban cards that get declined.
- microcolonel 8y ago
  That's cool, why do people bother with Oyster then? I get it if you're trying to delegate it to a minor, but why do adults use something other than a credit card?
  - notahacker 8y ago
    Oyster came first, and is still useful for tourists and other people who for whatever reason don't have contactless cards. And you can have prepaid season tickets on Oyster cards, which works for a lot of commuters
  - frosted-flakes 8y ago
    Can you load a season/discounted fare pass on a credit card?
    - microcolonel 8y ago
      > Can you load a season/discounted fare pass on a credit card? When it comes to discounts, you can accomplish that by identifying the card as a discounted fare card. When it comes to a season pass, just identify the card then don't process a payment. As for the feasibility of this, I don't know, but there is almost certainly a viable mechanism for each of these things.
  - esotericn 8y ago
    You cannot put a railcard on a contactless card. Very roughly, age 30-60 aren't eligible for discounts. Older or younger than that are. It should be possible for TfL to accomplish this but thus far it's not done.
JonathonW 8y ago
The big argument against this (for public transit agencies) is likely transaction fees: it's going to be more expensive for the agency to process a bunch of tiny transactions for each trip than it will be to process relatively few larger transactions when a stored-value card is refilled. The other obvious downside is more of a logistical thing: credit card transactions need connectivity. With a stored-value card system, transactions don't need a network to clear (everything's happening locally between the card and the reader); this means you don't have big backups if networks go down, you don't have a time lag waiting for transactions to clear, and you can place readers in locations where connectivity isn't guaranteed (like buses). That said, it's not unheard-of for public transit to take standard contactless credit cards. For example, Transport for London (at least theoretically) takes contactless payment systemwide.
- microcolonel 8y ago
  > The big argument against this (for public transit agencies) is likely transaction fees: it's going to be more expensive for the agency to process a bunch of tiny transactions for each trip than it will be to process relatively few larger transactions when a stored-value card is refilled. Yeah, though I think they could negotiate better fees given the volume (not that I think public transit authorities tend to be good at much at all without considerable public interest). I guess time will tell. Here in Canada, I think average merchant fees for the credit part are less than 1% overall, not sure if that would end up being such a big issue; especially when compared with the cost of administering a whole new system (anti-money-laundering, fraud detection, security, development, integration, support etc. etc).
- diebeforei485 8y ago
  They can charge higher fares to people who pay with contactless credit cards (as opposed to their own card). Many agencies already do this - for example, Caltrain and BART charge higher fares to those who aren't using a Clipper card. As long as the difference is high enough to offset the fees, this should not be an issue.
  - frosted-flakes 8y ago

esotericn 8y ago

In London (UK) you just get charged the next day. No pre-charge. The chances of someone having a card that won't accept a ten quid charge is fairly minimal and TfL just ban cards that get declined.

microcolonel 8y ago
That's cool, why do people bother with Oyster then? I get it if you're trying to delegate it to a minor, but why do adults use something other than a credit card?
- notahacker 8y ago
  Oyster came first, and is still useful for tourists and other people who for whatever reason don't have contactless cards. And you can have prepaid season tickets on Oyster cards, which works for a lot of commuters
- frosted-flakes 8y ago
  Can you load a season/discounted fare pass on a credit card?
  - microcolonel 8y ago
    > Can you load a season/discounted fare pass on a credit card? When it comes to discounts, you can accomplish that by identifying the card as a discounted fare card. When it comes to a season pass, just identify the card then don't process a payment. As for the feasibility of this, I don't know, but there is almost certainly a viable mechanism for each of these things.
- esotericn 8y ago
  You cannot put a railcard on a contactless card. Very roughly, age 30-60 aren't eligible for discounts. Older or younger than that are. It should be possible for TfL to accomplish this but thus far it's not done.

JonathonW 8y ago

The big argument against this (for public transit agencies) is likely transaction fees: it's going to be more expensive for the agency to process a bunch of tiny transactions for each trip than it will be to process relatively few larger transactions when a stored-value card is refilled. The other obvious downside is more of a logistical thing: credit card transactions need connectivity. With a stored-value card system, transactions don't need a network to clear (everything's happening locally between the card and the reader); this means you don't have big backups if networks go down, you don't have a time lag waiting for transactions to clear, and you can place readers in locations where connectivity isn't guaranteed (like buses). That said, it's not unheard-of for public transit to take standard contactless credit cards. For example, Transport for London (at least theoretically) takes contactless payment systemwide.

microcolonel 8y ago
> The big argument against this (for public transit agencies) is likely transaction fees: it's going to be more expensive for the agency to process a bunch of tiny transactions for each trip than it will be to process relatively few larger transactions when a stored-value card is refilled. Yeah, though I think they could negotiate better fees given the volume (not that I think public transit authorities tend to be good at much at all without considerable public interest). I guess time will tell. Here in Canada, I think average merchant fees for the credit part are less than 1% overall, not sure if that would end up being such a big issue; especially when compared with the cost of administering a whole new system (anti-money-laundering, fraud detection, security, development, integration, support etc. etc).
diebeforei485 8y ago
They can charge higher fares to people who pay with contactless credit cards (as opposed to their own card). Many agencies already do this - for example, Caltrain and BART charge higher fares to those who aren't using a Clipper card. As long as the difference is high enough to offset the fees, this should not be an issue.
- frosted-flakes 8y ago