6 ms·

It doesn't seem hard for other manufacturers to come to an industry standard for car charging, and then have that built out. There's only 119 supercharging stat

by xkjkls 8y ago

It doesn't seem hard for other manufacturers to come to an industry standard for car charging, and then have that built out. There's only 119 supercharging stations in the US. For the rest of the automotive industry to match that, especially if they all decide to collaborate, would take less than a year to catch up.

matthewdgreen 8y ago
Even if everyone started planning tomorrow, you'd be optimistically looking at a couple of years before this hypothetical new charging network began to be useful. That makes your car useless for a large fraction of its lifespan. Whereas Tesla's charging network exists today. (And I would add that I've heard nothing serious about a plan like this being in the works, so it may in fact be several years away if it ever happens.)
- dragonwriter 8y ago
  > Even if everyone started planning tomorrow, you'd be optimistically looking at a couple of years before this hypothetical new charging network began to be useful. What if they started planning years ago, and also started deployment years ago? Because both CCS and CHAdeMO chargers are deployed (often as multi-standard chargers), with far greater numbers of stations than Tesla has, already.
  - matthewdgreen 8y ago
    I don't see this as being true. When I check Electrify America in my area (DC/Baltimore) it's a desert. Plugshare shows many stations, but when I view details they're primarily 1-2 chargers. These stations are useless for long-distance trips, because in any location that attracts traffic I expect to wait a significant amount of time for other vehicles who reached it before me. The Tesla network typically has stations of 6-10 stalls (or up to 40 or more in a couple of locations), typically placed and sized to match actual long distance travel routes and demand. The stalls are all networked, so I can see availability on the road. While I'm not a Tesla fanboy and would be happy to see this situation change, trying to pretend that other companies have an advantage on Tesla in this area is simply ignoring reality -- at least here in the US.
- rohit2412 8y ago
  https://www.electrifyamerica.com/locate-charger https://www.electrifyamerica.com/locate-charger Some of them are for charging at 350KW, current Tesla Supercharger's top out at 150KW, and the next gen targets 250KW..
  - natch 8y ago
    Real chargers are always better than vaporware chargers though, regardless of promised numbers. And the number of chargers in the network matters.
    - steelframe 8y ago
      Here's a screenshot with all the CCS chargers either currently operating or under active construction in the state of Washington: https://imgur.com/a/JEQv9a2 https://imgur.com/a/JEQv9a2 I don't see how you could consider that coverage in any way inadequate.
      - matthewdgreen 8y ago
        I don't need HVDC charging in my local metro area; I have AC charging for that. I do need charging along the highways so I can increase my range and travel to other cities. Looking at the PlugShare map, it seems like many of the chargers along the highways only have a single HVDC charging station. Even if we exclude malfunctions, that can mean multiple hours of wait or else a gamble on driving further and not getting stuck. There's no way I would gamble on making a long trip under those conditions.
        steelframe 8y ago
        I had expected we would debate applied crypto and key management if we ever were to debate. But the subject of EVs will do just fine. Totally agreed on the road trip issue. I wouldn't want to bet my ability to continue a trip out of Superior, Montana on whether or not that one sketchy charger is accessible and functional when I need it. By way of reference to an actual event, that's exactly the situation I was faced with when the Superior, Montana Tesla supercharger failed when I tried using it in a heat wave during the summer of 2017.
- steelframe 8y ago
  Well, whether the availability of rapid charging stations makes your car useful would sort of depend on your lifestyle. In my family's case, we haven't supercharged our Model X since we went to see that crazy lunar eclipse in northern Oregon, and we don't expect to ever need to rapidly charge our I-PACE. That said, Electrify America is a thing and is in active deployment. I visited an EA station 40 miles from my house a couple of times and tried it out. It gives me the full 100kW that my I-PACE can currently take.
rohit2412 8y ago
> There's only 119 supercharging stations in the US That seems too little for 1400 worldwide. This image says 447 in USA. https://www.theatlas.com/charts/BJak7NcSz https://www.theatlas.com/charts/BJak7NcSz Any source for 119?
- natch 8y ago
  >Any source for 119? Looks like it’s just FUD. Appears it came from Wikipedia which clearly states that it was a 2014 figure, but OP conveniently forgot to note that their figure was severely out of date.
natch 8y ago
>There's only 119 supercharging stations in the US. That’s an old figure from 2014. Five years ago. The number has already done a couple of doublings since then and is set to double again in the next year or so. So much ignorance about Tesla here. It is really disappointing.

by xkjkls 8y ago

matthewdgreen 8y ago

Even if everyone started planning tomorrow, you'd be optimistically looking at a couple of years before this hypothetical new charging network began to be useful. That makes your car useless for a large fraction of its lifespan. Whereas Tesla's charging network exists today. (And I would add that I've heard nothing serious about a plan like this being in the works, so it may in fact be several years away if it ever happens.)

dragonwriter 8y ago
> Even if everyone started planning tomorrow, you'd be optimistically looking at a couple of years before this hypothetical new charging network began to be useful. What if they started planning years ago, and also started deployment years ago? Because both CCS and CHAdeMO chargers are deployed (often as multi-standard chargers), with far greater numbers of stations than Tesla has, already.
- matthewdgreen 8y ago
  I don't see this as being true. When I check Electrify America in my area (DC/Baltimore) it's a desert. Plugshare shows many stations, but when I view details they're primarily 1-2 chargers. These stations are useless for long-distance trips, because in any location that attracts traffic I expect to wait a significant amount of time for other vehicles who reached it before me. The Tesla network typically has stations of 6-10 stalls (or up to 40 or more in a couple of locations), typically placed and sized to match actual long distance travel routes and demand. The stalls are all networked, so I can see availability on the road. While I'm not a Tesla fanboy and would be happy to see this situation change, trying to pretend that other companies have an advantage on Tesla in this area is simply ignoring reality -- at least here in the US.
rohit2412 8y ago
https://www.electrifyamerica.com/locate-charger https://www.electrifyamerica.com/locate-charger Some of them are for charging at 350KW, current Tesla Supercharger's top out at 150KW, and the next gen targets 250KW..
- natch 8y ago
  Real chargers are always better than vaporware chargers though, regardless of promised numbers. And the number of chargers in the network matters.
  - steelframe 8y ago
    Here's a screenshot with all the CCS chargers either currently operating or under active construction in the state of Washington: https://imgur.com/a/JEQv9a2 https://imgur.com/a/JEQv9a2 I don't see how you could consider that coverage in any way inadequate.
    - matthewdgreen 8y ago
      I don't need HVDC charging in my local metro area; I have AC charging for that. I do need charging along the highways so I can increase my range and travel to other cities. Looking at the PlugShare map, it seems like many of the chargers along the highways only have a single HVDC charging station. Even if we exclude malfunctions, that can mean multiple hours of wait or else a gamble on driving further and not getting stuck. There's no way I would gamble on making a long trip under those conditions.
      - steelframe 8y ago
        I had expected we would debate applied crypto and key management if we ever were to debate. But the subject of EVs will do just fine. Totally agreed on the road trip issue. I wouldn't want to bet my ability to continue a trip out of Superior, Montana on whether or not that one sketchy charger is accessible and functional when I need it. By way of reference to an actual event, that's exactly the situation I was faced with when the Superior, Montana Tesla supercharger failed when I tried using it in a heat wave during the summer of 2017.
steelframe 8y ago
Well, whether the availability of rapid charging stations makes your car useful would sort of depend on your lifestyle. In my family's case, we haven't supercharged our Model X since we went to see that crazy lunar eclipse in northern Oregon, and we don't expect to ever need to rapidly charge our I-PACE. That said, Electrify America is a thing and is in active deployment. I visited an EA station 40 miles from my house a couple of times and tried it out. It gives me the full 100kW that my I-PACE can currently take.

rohit2412 8y ago

> There's only 119 supercharging stations in the US That seems too little for 1400 worldwide. This image says 447 in USA. https://www.theatlas.com/charts/BJak7NcSz https://www.theatlas.com/charts/BJak7NcSz Any source for 119?

natch 8y ago
>Any source for 119? Looks like it’s just FUD. Appears it came from Wikipedia which clearly states that it was a 2014 figure, but OP conveniently forgot to note that their figure was severely out of date.

natch 8y ago

>There's only 119 supercharging stations in the US. That’s an old figure from 2014. Five years ago. The number has already done a couple of doublings since then and is set to double again in the next year or so. So much ignorance about Tesla here. It is really disappointing.