My take on that is that any standup attended by project manager is not a Scrum standup anymore, it's a status update. What I've seen in few companies is that af

My take on that is that any standup attended by project manager is not a Scrum standup anymore, it's a status update. What I've seen in few companies is that after such morning meeting with PM, the development team, would hold their own, smaller scale meeting, the real stand-up :) One pathological case I've seen is the Scrum meeting that would run for an hour, because it was attended by 25 people, every day.