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can anyone cite an example of a major-media news story that was actually factually wrong in a way that "open source fact checking" could have detected it? Ther

can anyone cite an example of a major-media news story that was actually factually wrong in a way that "open source fact checking" could have detected it? There have been many of these recently. One striking one was the Boston Rally for which the mainstream news pushed a "white supremacist" narrative. This was odd, as the few people who managed to come out included a large proportion of brown people, including one South Asian senate candidate. The fact checking seems to go out the window, so long as the story pushes one of the "sacrosanct" narratives. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0wWeksF6XZs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0wWeksF6XZs Another example was the coverage of the public harassment incident at VidCon between Anita Saarkesian and Sargon of Akkad. The way it was reported, it sounds like Sargon did something, whereas videos online show that all the harassment was done by Anita Saarkesian. You may not like Sargon, but the fact that the news narrative goes 180 degrees against the truth on the ground should disturb everyone. I find the bias, when it exists, is in the presentation, not the facts themselves. Manufacturing Consent covers how western media entirely fits a "Propganda Model" of operation through presentation alone. However in recent years, even facts are thrown out in favor of narratives which run entirely counter to the facts. And mainstream journalism is really committed to getting the facts right. Not so much. I recall reading a NYT article about a storm-in-a-teacup thing involving who gets to walk first as valedictorian. The article was amazingly nearly fact free. It seems that articles and reports get a free pass, so long as they are pushing the "right" narrative. It has been this way for a very long time (re: Manufacturing Consent) but the quality of fact checking and the quality of the writing used to subtly spin the facts has gone down. People complained mightily about how all of the "Weapons of Mass Destruction" evidence was one big circle-jerk of "Citogenesis." https://xkcd.com/978/ https://xkcd.com/978/ Now, the same media organizations are involved in the same circle-jerks of "Citogenesis," but it's given a pass for tribal reasons, because the narrative supports "our side."

pvg 8y ago
Your cited examples are: a 40 minute youtube video that starts with a narrator saying 'Why I think today is a win for the free speech side and a massive loss for the left', some anecdote about a youtuber spat at a tubin' conference, Manufacturing Consent, an NYT article you 'recall' but don't link and an xkcd comic. I don't think any of these are what the question was about.
tptacek 8y ago
Regarding the Boston rally and the south Asian candidate: you're talking about Shiva Ayyadurai, the guy who (in my understanding of reports, which could be erroneous) sues people who contradict his claim of having invented electronic mail, has (to my understanding, which could be flawed) appeared on white supremacist podcasts, and used (as I understand it, based on reports) a caricature of himself as Pepe the Frog in his campaign pins? Who appeared (I have read in sources) in a video with a Charlottesville alt-righter and "blessed" a statue of "kek"? That's the basis of your claim that the media got this story wrong? Help me understand why you were even paying attention to this drama? Do you really find Shiva Ayyadurai to be a sympathetic figure? I assume no, right?
- stcredzero 8y ago
  Regarding the Boston rally and the south Asian candidate: you're talking about Shiva Ayyadurai, the guy who (in my understanding of reports, which could be erroneous) sues people who contradict his claim of having invented electronic mail, has (to my understanding, which could be flawed) appeared on white supremacist podcasts, and used (as I understand it, based on reports) a caricature of himself as Pepe the Frog in his campaign pins? Who appeared (I have read in sources) in a video with a Charlottesville alt-righter None of that is evidence this guy is a white supremacist. Which podcast did he appear on? and "blessed" a statue of "kek"? That's the basis of your claim that the media got this story wrong? That's hardly evidence of anything. The "Kek" character meant a lot of things to different people. Again, this is an example of narrative pushing and Citogenesis. Yours is the side that has to explain away facts with narratives. If you look at the Hard Bastard video, you'll see a number of brown faces in that "white supremacist" rally. To explain that away, you need more narrative. In any case, that narrative isn't even sufficient to avoid the charge that the media is being misled by narratives. By the network's own telling, they "didn't have access" to the Gazebo and what was going on. So on what did they base their narrative? The answer, is that they just took the narrative from far left people and didn't check. Also, note that the VidCon event fits this pattern. Video evidence from facts on the ground tell us: Some people are attending a convention together and just sitting there peacefully, then a speaker starts harassing them. Those are just the simple facts on the ground. To explain this away, more narrative is needed -- that of a harassment campaign and shadowy conspiracies. There is no evidence for this campaign. Investigation by Patreon and earlier law enforcement concluded there was nothing there. Instead, video criticism is spun as "harassment" by a narrative, which gets taken up into the mainstream media unchecked and unverified. There is a bubble englobing SV CEOs and the surrounding circles, and it's mostly narratives supported by emotions and vice versa. (And not a little dishonest spinning and editing of dialogue and interviews, for which there's ample evidence as well.)
scott_s 8y ago
> The way it was reported, it sounds like Sargon did something, whereas videos online show that all the harassment was done by Anita Saarkesian. He had been involved in a long harassment campaign against her, and then shows up in the front row at her panel. That is not an innocent act.
- stcredzero 8y ago
  He had been involved in a long harassment campaign against her There is no evidence of this. This is a Citogenesis fiction pushed by niche media. Making videos criticizing someone's videos isn't harassment. Patreon did an investigation just after the incident. My understanding was there was nothing. If there's evidence of him doing anything, it is actually of him attempting the "harassment" (really just insulting) white supremacists using toxic language. then shows up in the front row at her panel. That is not an innocent act. If there is no harassment of Ms. Saarkesian, that is an innocent act. Note the pattern here. There is simple, straightforward evidence of people just sitting there while a speaker hurls abuse over the PA system. To explain this away, a narrative is needed, which includes some sort of conspiracy theory. Immediately following the incident, Patreon found nothing. Just prior to that, the GamerGate movement was investigated by law enforcement, and they also found nothing. Just take the facts at face value. Occam's Razor. The simplest explanation is that mainstream media takes the narrative from biased niche media and does not fact check. Please notice that the evidence on your side is all weak "guilt by association" and easy to fabricate narratives.

pvg 8y ago

Your cited examples are: a 40 minute youtube video that starts with a narrator saying 'Why I think today is a win for the free speech side and a massive loss for the left', some anecdote about a youtuber spat at a tubin' conference, Manufacturing Consent, an NYT article you 'recall' but don't link and an xkcd comic. I don't think any of these are what the question was about.

tptacek 8y ago

Regarding the Boston rally and the south Asian candidate: you're talking about Shiva Ayyadurai, the guy who (in my understanding of reports, which could be erroneous) sues people who contradict his claim of having invented electronic mail, has (to my understanding, which could be flawed) appeared on white supremacist podcasts, and used (as I understand it, based on reports) a caricature of himself as Pepe the Frog in his campaign pins? Who appeared (I have read in sources) in a video with a Charlottesville alt-righter and "blessed" a statue of "kek"? That's the basis of your claim that the media got this story wrong? Help me understand why you were even paying attention to this drama? Do you really find Shiva Ayyadurai to be a sympathetic figure? I assume no, right?

stcredzero 8y ago
Regarding the Boston rally and the south Asian candidate: you're talking about Shiva Ayyadurai, the guy who (in my understanding of reports, which could be erroneous) sues people who contradict his claim of having invented electronic mail, has (to my understanding, which could be flawed) appeared on white supremacist podcasts, and used (as I understand it, based on reports) a caricature of himself as Pepe the Frog in his campaign pins? Who appeared (I have read in sources) in a video with a Charlottesville alt-righter None of that is evidence this guy is a white supremacist. Which podcast did he appear on? and "blessed" a statue of "kek"? That's the basis of your claim that the media got this story wrong? That's hardly evidence of anything. The "Kek" character meant a lot of things to different people. Again, this is an example of narrative pushing and Citogenesis. Yours is the side that has to explain away facts with narratives. If you look at the Hard Bastard video, you'll see a number of brown faces in that "white supremacist" rally. To explain that away, you need more narrative. In any case, that narrative isn't even sufficient to avoid the charge that the media is being misled by narratives. By the network's own telling, they "didn't have access" to the Gazebo and what was going on. So on what did they base their narrative? The answer, is that they just took the narrative from far left people and didn't check. Also, note that the VidCon event fits this pattern. Video evidence from facts on the ground tell us: Some people are attending a convention together and just sitting there peacefully, then a speaker starts harassing them. Those are just the simple facts on the ground. To explain this away, more narrative is needed -- that of a harassment campaign and shadowy conspiracies. There is no evidence for this campaign. Investigation by Patreon and earlier law enforcement concluded there was nothing there. Instead, video criticism is spun as "harassment" by a narrative, which gets taken up into the mainstream media unchecked and unverified. There is a bubble englobing SV CEOs and the surrounding circles, and it's mostly narratives supported by emotions and vice versa. (And not a little dishonest spinning and editing of dialogue and interviews, for which there's ample evidence as well.)

scott_s 8y ago

> The way it was reported, it sounds like Sargon did something, whereas videos online show that all the harassment was done by Anita Saarkesian. He had been involved in a long harassment campaign against her, and then shows up in the front row at her panel. That is not an innocent act.

stcredzero 8y ago
He had been involved in a long harassment campaign against her There is no evidence of this. This is a Citogenesis fiction pushed by niche media. Making videos criticizing someone's videos isn't harassment. Patreon did an investigation just after the incident. My understanding was there was nothing. If there's evidence of him doing anything, it is actually of him attempting the "harassment" (really just insulting) white supremacists using toxic language. then shows up in the front row at her panel. That is not an innocent act. If there is no harassment of Ms. Saarkesian, that is an innocent act. Note the pattern here. There is simple, straightforward evidence of people just sitting there while a speaker hurls abuse over the PA system. To explain this away, a narrative is needed, which includes some sort of conspiracy theory. Immediately following the incident, Patreon found nothing. Just prior to that, the GamerGate movement was investigated by law enforcement, and they also found nothing. Just take the facts at face value. Occam's Razor. The simplest explanation is that mainstream media takes the narrative from biased niche media and does not fact check. Please notice that the evidence on your side is all weak "guilt by association" and easy to fabricate narratives.