4 ms·

I agree with the general spirit of what you're stating, but the fact of the matter is that the Chinese government has proven conclusively that its vision of the

I agree with the general spirit of what you're stating, but the fact of the matter is that the Chinese government has proven conclusively that its vision of the future is not one that incorporates a free flow of information or the preservation of individual rights; the Chinese government as an entity is not a viable partner in the task of building the society of free information you envision - it is an obstacle standing in the way. Unfortunately, the Chinese government has chosen to use its economic prosperity to brutally subjugate ethnic minorities and construct an authoritarian nightmare that fully realizes Orwell's visions of state rule [1]. Every bit of available data indicates that the Chinese government would censor you and everyone you know if it had the ability to do so; the ruling party have demonstrated their willingness to violently destroy any person, group, or ideology that they disapprove of. Any other assessment of the situation is, at best, naive to the point of being dangerous. The twentieth century (not to mention the past ten years) has taught us that democracy is a fragile thing; it is extremely important that western citizens be vigilant and open-eyed when assessing who to deal with in educational, political, and business theaters. [1] https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2019/04/04/world/asia/xinjiang-china-surveillance-prison.html https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2019/04/04/world/asia/xi...

chrischen 8y ago
Individual rights is a Western philosophy. Eastern philosophies have long favored collectivism, including the “free” Japan.
- Brain_Thief 8y ago
  I've read your comment several times and am having trouble understanding your underlying point - could you elaborate?
  - automatic_4_ppl 8y ago
    It's a common apologia tactic for authoritarian regimes, in which their authoritarianism is justified by saying that, actually, that particular ethnicity prefers to be ruled by an iron-fisted dictatorship. Basically, the structure and ideology of the regime is assumed to be the authentic expression of something inherent in that particular culture, rather than the product of material circumstances or deliberate choices by a political elite.
  - nickpsecurity 8y ago
    Chinese culture encourages sharing ideas, not copyrighting ownership. Some things I've read say it comes from Confucianism. Regardless, they think it's good to spread and remix existing ideas instead of giving one party exclusive rights for 20-100+ years for their own profit. I agree with them that sharing ideas and tech seems to be a better default. If we had protections, they should be much more selective and careful. In Shenzhen especially, you have to out-compete the others on implementation of ideas instead of rest on your laurels (err, copyrights and patents). Wired has a great documentary of its history and culture here with examples: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SGJ5cZnoodY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SGJ5cZnoodY One I like that's about improvement more than stealing is the iPhone copy. That company got the copy out about a year before the iPhone hit China. Apple refused to let customers swap their batteries and SIM cards easily. Their I.P. protections let them pull bullshit like that. The Chinese knockoff did let you swap those. The chargers come to mind, too. If your interface is proprietary, a company will likely spring up offering a modified product or cheaper adapter that lets people keep their existing one.
    - toufiqbarhamov 8y ago
      Chinese culture encourages sharing ideas, not copyrighting ownership. Some things I've read say it comes from Confucianism. Regardless, they think it's good to spread and remix existing ideas instead of giving one party exclusive rights for 20-100+ years for their own profit. Except the communist party which controls all of China, and takes a highly authoritarian stance on the free spread of information they dislike and fear of course. They have a literal and digital Great Wall, I’m not sure how your square this fact with what you’re claiming is a cultural bias to collective information policies.
      - nickpsecurity 8y ago
        "Except the communist party which controls all of China, and takes a highly authoritarian stance on the free spread of information they dislike and fear of course. " They don't dislike foreign I.P. that their businesses can use to get rich. They also don't seem to dislike what Shenzhen is doing since they're not throwing the copycats in jail. It looks like the communist party is fine with this concept. Controlling information they fear to stay in power is a different topic entirely. They're all about that. That's why they have the Wall, censhorship, etc. You also seem to be conflating what Chinese individuals and businesses will do if they aren't restricted vs what their government imposes on them. The culture I'm describing applies to the former. I have no idea how the latter thinks past preserving and expanding their power.

chrischen 8y ago

Individual rights is a Western philosophy. Eastern philosophies have long favored collectivism, including the “free” Japan.

Brain_Thief 8y ago
I've read your comment several times and am having trouble understanding your underlying point - could you elaborate?
- automatic_4_ppl 8y ago
  It's a common apologia tactic for authoritarian regimes, in which their authoritarianism is justified by saying that, actually, that particular ethnicity prefers to be ruled by an iron-fisted dictatorship. Basically, the structure and ideology of the regime is assumed to be the authentic expression of something inherent in that particular culture, rather than the product of material circumstances or deliberate choices by a political elite.
- nickpsecurity 8y ago
  Chinese culture encourages sharing ideas, not copyrighting ownership. Some things I've read say it comes from Confucianism. Regardless, they think it's good to spread and remix existing ideas instead of giving one party exclusive rights for 20-100+ years for their own profit. I agree with them that sharing ideas and tech seems to be a better default. If we had protections, they should be much more selective and careful. In Shenzhen especially, you have to out-compete the others on implementation of ideas instead of rest on your laurels (err, copyrights and patents). Wired has a great documentary of its history and culture here with examples: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SGJ5cZnoodY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SGJ5cZnoodY One I like that's about improvement more than stealing is the iPhone copy. That company got the copy out about a year before the iPhone hit China. Apple refused to let customers swap their batteries and SIM cards easily. Their I.P. protections let them pull bullshit like that. The Chinese knockoff did let you swap those. The chargers come to mind, too. If your interface is proprietary, a company will likely spring up offering a modified product or cheaper adapter that lets people keep their existing one.
  - toufiqbarhamov 8y ago
    Chinese culture encourages sharing ideas, not copyrighting ownership. Some things I've read say it comes from Confucianism. Regardless, they think it's good to spread and remix existing ideas instead of giving one party exclusive rights for 20-100+ years for their own profit. Except the communist party which controls all of China, and takes a highly authoritarian stance on the free spread of information they dislike and fear of course. They have a literal and digital Great Wall, I’m not sure how your square this fact with what you’re claiming is a cultural bias to collective information policies.
    - nickpsecurity 8y ago
      "Except the communist party which controls all of China, and takes a highly authoritarian stance on the free spread of information they dislike and fear of course. " They don't dislike foreign I.P. that their businesses can use to get rich. They also don't seem to dislike what Shenzhen is doing since they're not throwing the copycats in jail. It looks like the communist party is fine with this concept. Controlling information they fear to stay in power is a different topic entirely. They're all about that. That's why they have the Wall, censhorship, etc. You also seem to be conflating what Chinese individuals and businesses will do if they aren't restricted vs what their government imposes on them. The culture I'm describing applies to the former. I have no idea how the latter thinks past preserving and expanding their power.