3 ms·

What they're trying to get at is that a MtF trans person is still biologically male, no matter what, therefore has an unfair advantage and should not be conside

by vokep 8y ago

What they're trying to get at is that a MtF trans person is still biologically male, no matter what, therefore has an unfair advantage and should not be considered to be on the same level as biological women. The simple solution I think is that sports should be sex based, not gender based.

YeGoblynQueenne 8y ago
I've been following Caster Semenya's case for a while. What you suggest is not a simple solution at all, I'm afraid. The issue of gender is much simpler- one just asks the person. The issue of sex seems to have become way too complicated in recent years.
- mantas 8y ago
  Hey, we could use the same for doping control! Just ask the person if they used any illegal performance enhancing drugs :) What would stop me from lying that I am a woman (I could even put on some makeup) to compete as a women? In some sports difference between men and women is so big that average male athlete could easily compete with top-of-the-line females. There's more than enough incentive for some douchebag to go the dirty way to get some glory.
  - YeGoblynQueenne 8y ago
    >> Hey, we could use the same for doping control! Just ask the person if they used any illegal performance enhancing drugs :) Gender is a subjective experience of a person. Doping is not. I don't find your comment funny. >> What would stop me from lying that I am a woman (I could even put on some makeup) to compete as a women? It wouldn't be enough to just "put on some makeup". The latest recommendation from the IOC for male-to-female transgendered athletes is that they must have testosterone levels in the female range for a year before they can be allowed to compete. I struggle to believe that a male athlete would accept taking hormones or being castrated to reduce their testosterone so they can "pretend to be a woman" in order to compete. Not to mention, that would significantly reduce one's athletic prowess. Generally, what you suggest is such a remote possibility as to be completely absurd.
    - mantas 8y ago
      > Gender is a subjective experience of a person. Doping is not. I don't find your comment funny. Yet performance related to hormones is not a "subjective experience". Nor body composition. E.g. in cycling females are at big disadvantage because their hips are wider, making them less aerodynamic. > I struggle to believe that a male athlete would accept taking hormones or being castrated to reduce their testosterone so they can "pretend to be a woman" in order to compete. I see you haven't been in sports scene much. I saw even amateurs in local weekend-warrior league taking doping (the cheap one, with very clear risks later in life) just to win some meaningless local race. People fucking love even tiny slice of glory. > Not to mention, that would significantly reduce one's athletic prowess. Those people don't care about absolute prowess. They care about podium. For example, it's not uncommon for amateurs to cheat to qualify for lower-tier group just to singlehandedly win against weaker opponents. Source: spent many years in local amateurs and semi-pros cycling scene.
      - YeGoblynQueenne 8y ago
        The suggestion that a man may pretend to be a woman to gain a competitive edge in sports remains arrant nonsense without any hope of redemption, no matter how you try to dress it. What I don't understand is what all this has to do with transgendered athletes.

by vokep 8y ago

YeGoblynQueenne 8y ago

I've been following Caster Semenya's case for a while. What you suggest is not a simple solution at all, I'm afraid. The issue of gender is much simpler- one just asks the person. The issue of sex seems to have become way too complicated in recent years.

mantas 8y ago
Hey, we could use the same for doping control! Just ask the person if they used any illegal performance enhancing drugs :) What would stop me from lying that I am a woman (I could even put on some makeup) to compete as a women? In some sports difference between men and women is so big that average male athlete could easily compete with top-of-the-line females. There's more than enough incentive for some douchebag to go the dirty way to get some glory.
- YeGoblynQueenne 8y ago
  >> Hey, we could use the same for doping control! Just ask the person if they used any illegal performance enhancing drugs :) Gender is a subjective experience of a person. Doping is not. I don't find your comment funny. >> What would stop me from lying that I am a woman (I could even put on some makeup) to compete as a women? It wouldn't be enough to just "put on some makeup". The latest recommendation from the IOC for male-to-female transgendered athletes is that they must have testosterone levels in the female range for a year before they can be allowed to compete. I struggle to believe that a male athlete would accept taking hormones or being castrated to reduce their testosterone so they can "pretend to be a woman" in order to compete. Not to mention, that would significantly reduce one's athletic prowess. Generally, what you suggest is such a remote possibility as to be completely absurd.
  - mantas 8y ago
    > Gender is a subjective experience of a person. Doping is not. I don't find your comment funny. Yet performance related to hormones is not a "subjective experience". Nor body composition. E.g. in cycling females are at big disadvantage because their hips are wider, making them less aerodynamic. > I struggle to believe that a male athlete would accept taking hormones or being castrated to reduce their testosterone so they can "pretend to be a woman" in order to compete. I see you haven't been in sports scene much. I saw even amateurs in local weekend-warrior league taking doping (the cheap one, with very clear risks later in life) just to win some meaningless local race. People fucking love even tiny slice of glory. > Not to mention, that would significantly reduce one's athletic prowess. Those people don't care about absolute prowess. They care about podium. For example, it's not uncommon for amateurs to cheat to qualify for lower-tier group just to singlehandedly win against weaker opponents. Source: spent many years in local amateurs and semi-pros cycling scene.
    - YeGoblynQueenne 8y ago
      The suggestion that a man may pretend to be a woman to gain a competitive edge in sports remains arrant nonsense without any hope of redemption, no matter how you try to dress it. What I don't understand is what all this has to do with transgendered athletes.