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I've worked at places where the managers hem and haw over firing someone even going so far as to use passive-aggression to make them leave on their own. In envi

I've worked at places where the managers hem and haw over firing someone even going so far as to use passive-aggression to make them leave on their own. In environments like that, the cost of hiring the wrong person is huge. It could take a couple of quarters to shake the dead weight and the entire team suffers. I've also worked with managers who have no problem being the hatchet man and it's great. They sniff out the losers, put them on a plan, and they're either out the door soon after or stick around to get fired. I would rather managers teach each other to wield the hatchet than try to get seven steps ahead of a dud hire during the interview process. "Release early, release often."

malvosenior 8y ago
I totally agree. I think so much of the "it's really hard to get rid of bad people" story comes from weak management. Firing people is part of the job, you need to be comfortable doing it. Interviewing people is extremely disruptive to an engineer's time and in a large company it could potentially happen a lot. I think that is the metric that should be optimized for, not minimizing firing work for the hiring manager.
- ebiester 8y ago
  I wonder about this - am I doing a candidate a disservice by hiring them without knowing that there is a non-trivial chance that they'll be fired within 1-2 months? If someone doesn't already have a job, that's fine, but someone might quit a situation where they are suited for one in which they aren't. Or, if someone is a junior developer, they've just spent 2 months before being let go, and has to explain the situation to the next place. I care about the people I hire as humans and don't want to put them in a bad situation.
  - malvosenior 8y ago
    I wouldn't say there's a non-trivial chance that they'll be fired in 1-2 months. Being able to effectively screen people is another technical managerial skill. There is a very, very small percentage of candidates that make it through the interview and later turn out to be duds. I think there are two issues at play: 1. Ineffective managers are terrified of firing people. 2. Ineffective managers rightly or wrongly think they can't screen people without code tests, white boarding... Like I said in my original comment I look at their Github or any other work portfolio they provide and have a deep discussion about it with them.

malvosenior 8y ago

I totally agree. I think so much of the "it's really hard to get rid of bad people" story comes from weak management. Firing people is part of the job, you need to be comfortable doing it. Interviewing people is extremely disruptive to an engineer's time and in a large company it could potentially happen a lot. I think that is the metric that should be optimized for, not minimizing firing work for the hiring manager.

ebiester 8y ago
I wonder about this - am I doing a candidate a disservice by hiring them without knowing that there is a non-trivial chance that they'll be fired within 1-2 months? If someone doesn't already have a job, that's fine, but someone might quit a situation where they are suited for one in which they aren't. Or, if someone is a junior developer, they've just spent 2 months before being let go, and has to explain the situation to the next place. I care about the people I hire as humans and don't want to put them in a bad situation.
- malvosenior 8y ago
  I wouldn't say there's a non-trivial chance that they'll be fired in 1-2 months. Being able to effectively screen people is another technical managerial skill. There is a very, very small percentage of candidates that make it through the interview and later turn out to be duds. I think there are two issues at play: 1. Ineffective managers are terrified of firing people. 2. Ineffective managers rightly or wrongly think they can't screen people without code tests, white boarding... Like I said in my original comment I look at their Github or any other work portfolio they provide and have a deep discussion about it with them.