4 ms·

This is all kinds of wrong, the problem could be tackled much better, for example most companies have no incentives to hire workers near their premises (or relo

This is all kinds of wrong, the problem could be tackled much better, for example most companies have no incentives to hire workers near their premises (or relocating them to make it so), meaning they get no benefit if they emplooyes have a 10 minute commute over a 2 hour commute; car companies have no incentive to build smaller cars, small single-person cars should be far more common but instead we are stuck with hundreads of people buying the biggest car they can get a loan for.

nathanvanfleet 8y ago
That doesn't really seem true to me. Car companies make products that can sell. People vote with their feet. People make decisions to buy bigger vehicles so that's what is manufactured. If there is increased demand for compact cars the manufacturers will make more (like they do outside of the US). Companies might not seek to hire people nearby but they might put their offices in a more convenient location. Either way you seem to completely miss the idea that alternative methods of transportation like mass transit or bicycles etc might expand in use. Which can cause those things to expand (better mass transit coverage, better and more protected bike paths). Again there are examples all over the world outside of the US.
- mattigames 8y ago
  > People vote with their feet. People make decisions to buy bigger vehicles so that's what is manufactured. If there is increased demand for compact cars the manufacturers will make more (like they do outside of the US) Yeah and people are irrational and wrong, that's why the right incentives must exist so they are more incentived to buy smaller cars such as single-person or 2 person cars. > Either way you seem to completely miss the idea that alternative methods of transportation like mass transit I did not, of course better transportation its the solution in long term but in the short one we need viable solutions as well.
lloydde 8y ago
This is a novel idea, but introduces worse problems of discrimination. You should not use candidates address or commute as criteria in hiring. I do see companies set up satellite or second offices. I do wonder if an companies of scale use proximities and travel time to influence renewing leases or moving office buildings. What do these formulas look like? What data do they use?
- mattigames 8y ago
  >You should not use candidates address or commute as criteria in hiring. Why not? You claim it like a truth without justifying it: A person living near a restaurant that want a job there should get it over someone just as qualified in the opposite end of the city.
  - ghaff 8y ago
    Maybe they should just build company dorms and make living and eating in them a condition of employment. </s>
    - mattigames 8y ago
      Yeah, living near where you work is totally the same as living there; they will miss losing 2 hours of every day of their lives due commuting so much.
      - ghaff 8y ago
        And if I choose to do so (which, in my career I have rarely done so), that is my decision. Not my company's or some random busybody.
        mattigames 8y ago
        "I made the decision!" is not an argument, the ability to make decisions (e.g. I decided to run you over!) bear no weight if it goes against a better alternative rule for everyone else.
  - lloydde 8y ago
    I raise the topic of discrimination and instead of addressing it, you respond with a simple example. The person who creates the straw man should fill it. If you use any criteria other than the qualifications of the job, you open yourself up to accusations of discrimination. Rightly so. Outside of government, I haven’t seen equally qualified candidates. When government organizations achieves this, they do it be using fixed duration “contests”. Gov optimizes to minimize discrimination. This approach is not something that matches the needs of businesses, specifically as they are often competing for talent that will take another job if delay in offer, retention of other works who are burdened by the position not being filled, and business objects that will not be met or costs incurred if delayed. The fact is that in all population centers cost increases closer to the center, many types of business and locations with shorter transit times to these desirable locations. In other words, the poor live furthest away from their jobs. This isn’t even bringing in the topic of diversity, which is much more nuanced. Here though there is no argument that many groups live in communities and those communities take real space. In other words, distance from a business is unlikely to correlate to diverse communities.

nathanvanfleet 8y ago

That doesn't really seem true to me. Car companies make products that can sell. People vote with their feet. People make decisions to buy bigger vehicles so that's what is manufactured. If there is increased demand for compact cars the manufacturers will make more (like they do outside of the US). Companies might not seek to hire people nearby but they might put their offices in a more convenient location. Either way you seem to completely miss the idea that alternative methods of transportation like mass transit or bicycles etc might expand in use. Which can cause those things to expand (better mass transit coverage, better and more protected bike paths). Again there are examples all over the world outside of the US.

mattigames 8y ago
> People vote with their feet. People make decisions to buy bigger vehicles so that's what is manufactured. If there is increased demand for compact cars the manufacturers will make more (like they do outside of the US) Yeah and people are irrational and wrong, that's why the right incentives must exist so they are more incentived to buy smaller cars such as single-person or 2 person cars. > Either way you seem to completely miss the idea that alternative methods of transportation like mass transit I did not, of course better transportation its the solution in long term but in the short one we need viable solutions as well.

lloydde 8y ago

This is a novel idea, but introduces worse problems of discrimination. You should not use candidates address or commute as criteria in hiring. I do see companies set up satellite or second offices. I do wonder if an companies of scale use proximities and travel time to influence renewing leases or moving office buildings. What do these formulas look like? What data do they use?

mattigames 8y ago
>You should not use candidates address or commute as criteria in hiring. Why not? You claim it like a truth without justifying it: A person living near a restaurant that want a job there should get it over someone just as qualified in the opposite end of the city.
- ghaff 8y ago
  Maybe they should just build company dorms and make living and eating in them a condition of employment. </s>
  - mattigames 8y ago
    Yeah, living near where you work is totally the same as living there; they will miss losing 2 hours of every day of their lives due commuting so much.
    - ghaff 8y ago
      And if I choose to do so (which, in my career I have rarely done so), that is my decision. Not my company's or some random busybody.
      - mattigames 8y ago
        "I made the decision!" is not an argument, the ability to make decisions (e.g. I decided to run you over!) bear no weight if it goes against a better alternative rule for everyone else.
- lloydde 8y ago
  I raise the topic of discrimination and instead of addressing it, you respond with a simple example. The person who creates the straw man should fill it. If you use any criteria other than the qualifications of the job, you open yourself up to accusations of discrimination. Rightly so. Outside of government, I haven’t seen equally qualified candidates. When government organizations achieves this, they do it be using fixed duration “contests”. Gov optimizes to minimize discrimination. This approach is not something that matches the needs of businesses, specifically as they are often competing for talent that will take another job if delay in offer, retention of other works who are burdened by the position not being filled, and business objects that will not be met or costs incurred if delayed. The fact is that in all population centers cost increases closer to the center, many types of business and locations with shorter transit times to these desirable locations. In other words, the poor live furthest away from their jobs. This isn’t even bringing in the topic of diversity, which is much more nuanced. Here though there is no argument that many groups live in communities and those communities take real space. In other words, distance from a business is unlikely to correlate to diverse communities.