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> I am an ex-techno DJ and have had quite a number of bookings in the UK as well as produced a few tracks of my own too. Why does this matter? If you want dick

> I am an ex-techno DJ and have had quite a number of bookings in the UK as well as produced a few tracks of my own too. Why does this matter? If you want dick swinging, I'll probably beat you anyday. I'm a DMC finalist and toured with a few big rap groups and on my own for more than half of my life. All this is irrelevant. We're talking about skills vs faking the funk here. > Beat mixing is only a very small part of DJing and is not a creative part of the process. It's a technical skill - nothing more. It is a part of djing and it is a creative part of the process. Maybe you didn't get creative with it and that's perfectly fine. However, others have gotten creative with it(Z-trip, dj shadow, cut chemist, jrocc, mr choc, daft punk, and many more). > Telling people they must learn how to beat mix on turntables before learning Ableton is like saying someone must learn how to paint with oil paints before they're allowed to use Photoshop. What actually matters is what enables performers to create the best live performance. So if you're going for face value then yes, I can go up on stage with my laptop, play an mp3, dance to the music in front of thousands, and entertain people all day. This is entertainment but this isn't djing. I'm talking about raw skill. Sounds like you prefer someone to lip sync than actual sing on stage. Same thing. > I've never gotten the same emotional connection with CDJs nor Ableton. However the audience wouldn't experience that. They will if you're good at your craft.

MaddAgent 8y ago
> I've never gotten the same emotional connection with CDJs nor Ableton. However the audience wouldn't experience that. >They will if you're good at your craft. This - 100%. I can't agree more. When you feel what you're doing, the audience should feel it also. That's what keeps me doing it now after 20+ years (when I don't really have to, in order to pay the bills anymore!). It's that moment, of a connection, and the spine tingling chill/buzz you get when you pull off a great mix in the moment and the audience feel it too.
- laumars 8y ago
  That wasn't what I was arguing though. I was saying vinyl feels nicer because it's more tactile but the audience shouldn't be groping your record collection. Feeling the music (rather than touching the media) is a different matter. You can emotionally connect with the music being played regardless of the playback medium.
- PascLeRasc 8y ago
  I love watching Kaytranada's Boiler Room set for just that reason - the energy he's able to put out into the audience is so magical. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-5EQIiabJvk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-5EQIiabJvk
laumars 8y ago
> Why does this matter? If you want dick swinging, I'll probably beat you anyday. I'm a DMC finalist and toured with a few big rap groups and on my own for more than half of my life. All this is irrelevant. We're talking about skills vs faking the funk here. It's relevant because it's a conversation about techno and I'm explaining I have direct insight into DJing techno. DMC is an entirely difference scene where "turntablism" is more of a thing so I can see why you might argue the case for learning to beat mix but those arguments don't apply to techno. > It is a part of djing and it is a creative part of the process. Maybe you didn't get creative with it and that's perfectly fine. You cannot get creative with beat matching. The process of beat matching is literally just quantising two tracks together. Everything else beyond that is "mixing" - which is where the creative process happens. But that is not "beat matching". The distinction I'm making is vital because you can do creative beat mixing without having to do any beat matching. > Maybe you didn't get creative with it and that's perfectly fine. I do and please don't make personal assumptions about me. > So if you're going for face value then yes, I can go up on stage with my laptop, play an mp3, dance to the music in front of thousands, and entertain people all day. This is entertainment but this isn't djing. I'm talking about raw skill. Sounds like you prefer someone to lip sync than actual sing on stage. Same thing. All DJing is just playing other peoples records. You're not up there with a guitar ffs. So it doesn't matter if it's an vinyl or an MP3 - that's just a technical detail. What actually matters is how you mix those records, not beat match them. > They will if you're good at your craft. You do realise you just argued that "The audience will physically touch your vinyl if you're a good DJ" - a statement which suggests you throw sharp plastic objects into the crowd. Clearly you wouldn't do this - which means you should probably go back and re-read what I'd written ;)
- igotsideas 8y ago
  > DMC is an entirely difference scene where "turntablism" is more of a thing so I can see why you might argue the case for learning to beat mix but those arguments don't apply to techno. I started mixing and continue to do it to this day. It's important for anyone who is djing. > You cannot get creative with beat matching. The process of beat matching is literally just quantising two tracks together. Everything else beyond that is "mixing" - which is where the creative process happens. But that is not "beat matching". Sure, I'll give you that > All DJing is just playing other peoples records. You're not up there with a guitar ffs. So it doesn't matter if it's an vinyl or an MP3 - that's just a technical detail. What actually matters is how you mix those records, not beat match them. Technical detail is what this discussion is about. I never use the term "beat matching" because it's kind of been all in one for me. However, "beat matching" does matter. You're telling me that train wrecking is okay as long as it's mixed good. > You do realise you just argued that "The audience will physically touch your vinyl if you're a good DJ" - a statement which suggests you throw sharp plastic objects into the crowd. Clearly you wouldn't do this - which means you should probably go back and re-read what I'd written ;) I was referring to what you said: "I've never gotten the same emotional connection with CDJs nor Ableton." I feel like you're jabbing at me now. I wasn't trying to be disrespectful. If you want to play that game, well, we could do that all day. Not helping anyone out though.
djthrowaway 8y ago
You are why people hate turntablists. You gatekeep the “DJ” craft with your one true way and worship Jazzy Jeff, and look down on everyone who’s not standing between two 1200s, despite most of your kin moving onto DVS or other emulation anyway. You keep sitting on HN and talking about that one time you opened for DMC and shitting on a techno DJ who does nothing like what you do, and we will keep producing creative experiences in OUR format using the same equipment you do in different ways. This is like working on a riced-out sleeper Civic versus building a rally WRX. Yeah, we both use socket wrenches, but the cars are built entirely differently. I wouldn’t come over to your garage and lecture you about suspension travel, and you wouldn’t come to my garage to lecture me about whatever it is Civic dragsters care about (turbo pressure?). There are similarities. There are differences. Your craft is fading into irrelevance. You shouldn’t be gatekeeping kids who click with Live just because something worked for you. Techno and turntablism are dramatically different styles. Extol the virtues of doing it your way and respect that there are others. Last time I stood behind Daft Punk while they worked (swing-a-ling), they were not working the way you think they are, by the way, so you might want to check your examples. This might surprise you, but if people leave one of my venues feeling good and have absolutely no recollection of who I am, I still count that as a victory. I’m there for the music, not how fast I can crab walk a cross. I recognize turntablists view their self promotion differently and make the evening about them, which is why technical skill on the deck matters. I welcome trainspotters in my booth so they can see how easy it is to express themselves creatively and give their friends a good time. It’s just a way more positive vibe than... whatever it is you’re doing here.
- empath75 8y ago
  > if people leave one of my venues feeling good and have absolutely no recollection of who I am, I still count that as a victory. I always thought of party promotion and djing as a single holistic art form and that the crowd was actually the creative product and not the music and the lights or anything else. At the end of the day, you're building a community and want people leaving saying they just had the best night of their life, and music is only a part of it.
- igotsideas 8y ago
  > You are why people hate turntablists. You gatekeep the “DJ” craft with your one true way and worship Jazzy Jeff, and look down on everyone who’s not standing between two 1200s, despite most of your kin moving onto DVS or other emulation anyway. Wrong. > You keep sitting on HN and talking about that one time you opened for DMC and shitting on a techno DJ who does nothing like what you do, and we will keep producing creative experiences in OUR format using the same equipment you do in different ways. You mad. Who said I didn't mix techno using other equipment? Because I was in DMC, I'm just a tablist now? I was in a technical discussion and you just poured a bunch of salt into this > Your craft is fading into irrelevance. You shouldn’t be gatekeeping kids who click with Live just because something worked for you. Techno and turntablism are dramatically different styles. Extol the virtues of doing it your way and respect that there are others. Last time I stood behind Daft Punk while they worked (swing-a-ling), they were not working the way you think they are, by the way, so you might want to check your examples. Yeah, skratching isnt as fun as it used to be which is why I've only been mixing for years now so I'll give you that one. Who was gatekeeping kids who click live? I wasn't. I was in a technical discussion about djing. > This might surprise you, but if people leave one of my venues feeling good and have absolutely no recollection of who I am, I still count that as a victory. I’m there for the music, not how fast I can crab walk a cross. I recognize turntablists view their self promotion differently and make the evening about them, which is why technical skill on the deck matters. I welcome trainspotters in my booth so they can see how easy it is to express themselves creatively and give their friends a good time. It’s just a way more positive vibe than... whatever it is you’re doing here. cool? How was I creating a negative vibe?
empath75 8y ago
> I'm a DMC finalist and toured with a few big rap groups and on my own for more than half of my life. All this is irrelevant. We're talking about skills vs faking the funk here. Turntablists and edm djs live in very different worlds with different audiences and different expectations. I used to do event promotion for an extremely large weekly EDM event and turntablists (including very big names and DMC winners) just cleared the room almost every time we booked them, even if people appreciated the technical ability. The thing is that EDM audiences aren't interested in how hard the dj is working -- they just want to forget where they are and dance and not think about how the music gets made.
- igotsideas 8y ago
  Lol I'll battle you for money on the mixxing tip anytime. I mixed for years before I started skratching and continue to mix more than skratching to this day. There are some tablist who don't mix and yeah, they're weak. Don't assume that all of them don't know how to mix though.
  - empath75 8y ago
    Dj battling is such a foreign concept to me as a trance/techno dj. Like I'm not sure how you're supposed to compare two different djs that play 9 records an hour. Like woo, you really picked a subtle key change to lift up the energy slightly after building tension for 20 minutes by playing repetitive drum-heavy tracks!
    - igotsideas 8y ago
      lol Check out redbull 3style. You made me laugh though. Thanks.
      - empath75 8y ago
        > DJs are given 15 minutes Lol, at 15 minutes, i'm like halfway into my second song, lol.

MaddAgent 8y ago

> I've never gotten the same emotional connection with CDJs nor Ableton. However the audience wouldn't experience that. >They will if you're good at your craft. This - 100%. I can't agree more. When you feel what you're doing, the audience should feel it also. That's what keeps me doing it now after 20+ years (when I don't really have to, in order to pay the bills anymore!). It's that moment, of a connection, and the spine tingling chill/buzz you get when you pull off a great mix in the moment and the audience feel it too.

laumars 8y ago
That wasn't what I was arguing though. I was saying vinyl feels nicer because it's more tactile but the audience shouldn't be groping your record collection. Feeling the music (rather than touching the media) is a different matter. You can emotionally connect with the music being played regardless of the playback medium.
PascLeRasc 8y ago
I love watching Kaytranada's Boiler Room set for just that reason - the energy he's able to put out into the audience is so magical. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-5EQIiabJvk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-5EQIiabJvk

laumars 8y ago

> Why does this matter? If you want dick swinging, I'll probably beat you anyday. I'm a DMC finalist and toured with a few big rap groups and on my own for more than half of my life. All this is irrelevant. We're talking about skills vs faking the funk here. It's relevant because it's a conversation about techno and I'm explaining I have direct insight into DJing techno. DMC is an entirely difference scene where "turntablism" is more of a thing so I can see why you might argue the case for learning to beat mix but those arguments don't apply to techno. > It is a part of djing and it is a creative part of the process. Maybe you didn't get creative with it and that's perfectly fine. You cannot get creative with beat matching. The process of beat matching is literally just quantising two tracks together. Everything else beyond that is "mixing" - which is where the creative process happens. But that is not "beat matching". The distinction I'm making is vital because you can do creative beat mixing without having to do any beat matching. > Maybe you didn't get creative with it and that's perfectly fine. I do and please don't make personal assumptions about me. > So if you're going for face value then yes, I can go up on stage with my laptop, play an mp3, dance to the music in front of thousands, and entertain people all day. This is entertainment but this isn't djing. I'm talking about raw skill. Sounds like you prefer someone to lip sync than actual sing on stage. Same thing. All DJing is just playing other peoples records. You're not up there with a guitar ffs. So it doesn't matter if it's an vinyl or an MP3 - that's just a technical detail. What actually matters is how you mix those records, not beat match them. > They will if you're good at your craft. You do realise you just argued that "The audience will physically touch your vinyl if you're a good DJ" - a statement which suggests you throw sharp plastic objects into the crowd. Clearly you wouldn't do this - which means you should probably go back and re-read what I'd written ;)

igotsideas 8y ago
> DMC is an entirely difference scene where "turntablism" is more of a thing so I can see why you might argue the case for learning to beat mix but those arguments don't apply to techno. I started mixing and continue to do it to this day. It's important for anyone who is djing. > You cannot get creative with beat matching. The process of beat matching is literally just quantising two tracks together. Everything else beyond that is "mixing" - which is where the creative process happens. But that is not "beat matching". Sure, I'll give you that > All DJing is just playing other peoples records. You're not up there with a guitar ffs. So it doesn't matter if it's an vinyl or an MP3 - that's just a technical detail. What actually matters is how you mix those records, not beat match them. Technical detail is what this discussion is about. I never use the term "beat matching" because it's kind of been all in one for me. However, "beat matching" does matter. You're telling me that train wrecking is okay as long as it's mixed good. > You do realise you just argued that "The audience will physically touch your vinyl if you're a good DJ" - a statement which suggests you throw sharp plastic objects into the crowd. Clearly you wouldn't do this - which means you should probably go back and re-read what I'd written ;) I was referring to what you said: "I've never gotten the same emotional connection with CDJs nor Ableton." I feel like you're jabbing at me now. I wasn't trying to be disrespectful. If you want to play that game, well, we could do that all day. Not helping anyone out though.

djthrowaway 8y ago

You are why people hate turntablists. You gatekeep the “DJ” craft with your one true way and worship Jazzy Jeff, and look down on everyone who’s not standing between two 1200s, despite most of your kin moving onto DVS or other emulation anyway. You keep sitting on HN and talking about that one time you opened for DMC and shitting on a techno DJ who does nothing like what you do, and we will keep producing creative experiences in OUR format using the same equipment you do in different ways. This is like working on a riced-out sleeper Civic versus building a rally WRX. Yeah, we both use socket wrenches, but the cars are built entirely differently. I wouldn’t come over to your garage and lecture you about suspension travel, and you wouldn’t come to my garage to lecture me about whatever it is Civic dragsters care about (turbo pressure?). There are similarities. There are differences. Your craft is fading into irrelevance. You shouldn’t be gatekeeping kids who click with Live just because something worked for you. Techno and turntablism are dramatically different styles. Extol the virtues of doing it your way and respect that there are others. Last time I stood behind Daft Punk while they worked (swing-a-ling), they were not working the way you think they are, by the way, so you might want to check your examples. This might surprise you, but if people leave one of my venues feeling good and have absolutely no recollection of who I am, I still count that as a victory. I’m there for the music, not how fast I can crab walk a cross. I recognize turntablists view their self promotion differently and make the evening about them, which is why technical skill on the deck matters. I welcome trainspotters in my booth so they can see how easy it is to express themselves creatively and give their friends a good time. It’s just a way more positive vibe than... whatever it is you’re doing here.

empath75 8y ago
> if people leave one of my venues feeling good and have absolutely no recollection of who I am, I still count that as a victory. I always thought of party promotion and djing as a single holistic art form and that the crowd was actually the creative product and not the music and the lights or anything else. At the end of the day, you're building a community and want people leaving saying they just had the best night of their life, and music is only a part of it.
igotsideas 8y ago
> You are why people hate turntablists. You gatekeep the “DJ” craft with your one true way and worship Jazzy Jeff, and look down on everyone who’s not standing between two 1200s, despite most of your kin moving onto DVS or other emulation anyway. Wrong. > You keep sitting on HN and talking about that one time you opened for DMC and shitting on a techno DJ who does nothing like what you do, and we will keep producing creative experiences in OUR format using the same equipment you do in different ways. You mad. Who said I didn't mix techno using other equipment? Because I was in DMC, I'm just a tablist now? I was in a technical discussion and you just poured a bunch of salt into this > Your craft is fading into irrelevance. You shouldn’t be gatekeeping kids who click with Live just because something worked for you. Techno and turntablism are dramatically different styles. Extol the virtues of doing it your way and respect that there are others. Last time I stood behind Daft Punk while they worked (swing-a-ling), they were not working the way you think they are, by the way, so you might want to check your examples. Yeah, skratching isnt as fun as it used to be which is why I've only been mixing for years now so I'll give you that one. Who was gatekeeping kids who click live? I wasn't. I was in a technical discussion about djing. > This might surprise you, but if people leave one of my venues feeling good and have absolutely no recollection of who I am, I still count that as a victory. I’m there for the music, not how fast I can crab walk a cross. I recognize turntablists view their self promotion differently and make the evening about them, which is why technical skill on the deck matters. I welcome trainspotters in my booth so they can see how easy it is to express themselves creatively and give their friends a good time. It’s just a way more positive vibe than... whatever it is you’re doing here. cool? How was I creating a negative vibe?

empath75 8y ago

> I'm a DMC finalist and toured with a few big rap groups and on my own for more than half of my life. All this is irrelevant. We're talking about skills vs faking the funk here. Turntablists and edm djs live in very different worlds with different audiences and different expectations. I used to do event promotion for an extremely large weekly EDM event and turntablists (including very big names and DMC winners) just cleared the room almost every time we booked them, even if people appreciated the technical ability. The thing is that EDM audiences aren't interested in how hard the dj is working -- they just want to forget where they are and dance and not think about how the music gets made.

igotsideas 8y ago
Lol I'll battle you for money on the mixxing tip anytime. I mixed for years before I started skratching and continue to mix more than skratching to this day. There are some tablist who don't mix and yeah, they're weak. Don't assume that all of them don't know how to mix though.
- empath75 8y ago
  Dj battling is such a foreign concept to me as a trance/techno dj. Like I'm not sure how you're supposed to compare two different djs that play 9 records an hour. Like woo, you really picked a subtle key change to lift up the energy slightly after building tension for 20 minutes by playing repetitive drum-heavy tracks!
  - igotsideas 8y ago
    lol Check out redbull 3style. You made me laugh though. Thanks.
    - empath75 8y ago
      > DJs are given 15 minutes Lol, at 15 minutes, i'm like halfway into my second song, lol.