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This is terrible advice. It’s like telling someone to not learn how to program, just use wix for your websites. If you want to learn how to dj, learn to mix on

This is terrible advice. It’s like telling someone to not learn how to program, just use wix for your websites. If you want to learn how to dj, learn to mix on turntables, cdjs, or a controller. IMO, you’re missing a lot of fun if you rely on Ableton for everything and you have less control over your mixes. You can do just as much with Serato fx as you can Ableton effects if that’s your worry.

platz 8y ago
For a long time in the U.K. they didn't even beat match, because being a DJ was about song selection and arrangement.
laumars 8y ago
I am an ex-techno DJ and have had quite a number of bookings in the UK as well as produced a few tracks of my own too. I made the switch to Ableton years ago when I found turntables actually hampered my creativity (and I don't say this likely since I was a competent in 3 decks and beat-mixing tracks of different time signatures - which is a hard skill to learn) Beat mixing is only a very small part of DJing and is not a creative part of the process. It's a technical skill - nothing more. Telling people they must learn how to beat mix on turntables before learning Ableton is like saying someone must learn how to paint with oil paints before they're allowed to use Photoshop. What actually matters is what enables performers to create the best live performance. One thing I will agree with you on is that I have more of an emotional connection with vinyl because I'm physically connecting with the playback media. I've never gotten the same emotional connection with CDs nor Ableton. However this is a tactile response and nothing to do with the music itself so the audience wouldn't experience that.
- empath75 8y ago
  > Beat mixing is only a very small part of DJing and is not a creative part of the process. It's a technical skill - nothing more. This. I spent years djing at clubs and opened for some of the biggest names in the world and know tons of djs and producers. Nobody talks about beatmatching except people just getting started. A lot of people learned it because it was the only way to mix records for a long time, but to me, it's an utterly pointless skill to have any more.
  - kekebo 8y ago
    One downside of using laptops is that it can create a barrier between dj and crowd, I've seen lots of people who only learned djing on a laptop not mastering their performance anxiety and instead burying their face in the screen as much as possible. I always enjoyed when djs made an effort to be 'with the crowd' and always tried to do so myself - not having a screen around for every gig can help learning not to play like a turtle.
    - empath75 8y ago
      Fair point. I usually moved the screen off the side and used an apc40 to control it so I looked at the screen very little, other than to check which songs were mapped to which buttons. Certainly no more time away from the crowd than djs digging through record bags. FWIW, it's just as easy to spend all your time looking at your turntables when you're mixing, especially when you aren't very good at beatmatching. When I was first getting started, it often took me like 2-3 minutes to get the beatmatching right, and spent almost all of that time looking at the turntables and not the crowd. Of course when I sucked at beatmatching, "the crowd" i was playing for was 5 or 10 people, half of which came with me.
    - laumars 8y ago
      I've heard this argument made a thousand times and I still don't believe it because there are plenty of vinyl DJs who don't interact and lots of laptop DJs who are pulling all sorts of stunts on stage to entertain the crowds. What matters more than the medium is the individual who's playing from them. I've performed a lot, both from a laptop and from vinyl (and a fair few times with both too) and anecdotally I can say using a laptop has never defined how much of a spectacle I choose to make of myself. The amount I've slept beforehand or whisky I've drank has a much bigger effect ;)
  - chiefalchemist 8y ago
    Yup. Beat mixing is the easier part. I've heard plenty of DJ's who could mix but had shite song selection and/or had no idea how to read and motivate a crowd. You can teach a monkey to beat match. You can't teach a monkey to be a DJ.
- igotsideas 8y ago
  > I am an ex-techno DJ and have had quite a number of bookings in the UK as well as produced a few tracks of my own too. Why does this matter? If you want dick swinging, I'll probably beat you anyday. I'm a DMC finalist and toured with a few big rap groups and on my own for more than half of my life. All this is irrelevant. We're talking about skills vs faking the funk here. > Beat mixing is only a very small part of DJing and is not a creative part of the process. It's a technical skill - nothing more. It is a part of djing and it is a creative part of the process. Maybe you didn't get creative with it and that's perfectly fine. However, others have gotten creative with it(Z-trip, dj shadow, cut chemist, jrocc, mr choc, daft punk, and many more). > Telling people they must learn how to beat mix on turntables before learning Ableton is like saying someone must learn how to paint with oil paints before they're allowed to use Photoshop. What actually matters is what enables performers to create the best live performance. So if you're going for face value then yes, I can go up on stage with my laptop, play an mp3, dance to the music in front of thousands, and entertain people all day. This is entertainment but this isn't djing. I'm talking about raw skill. Sounds like you prefer someone to lip sync than actual sing on stage. Same thing. > I've never gotten the same emotional connection with CDJs nor Ableton. However the audience wouldn't experience that. They will if you're good at your craft.
  - MaddAgent 8y ago
    > I've never gotten the same emotional connection with CDJs nor Ableton. However the audience wouldn't experience that. >They will if you're good at your craft. This - 100%. I can't agree more. When you feel what you're doing, the audience should feel it also. That's what keeps me doing it now after 20+ years (when I don't really have to, in order to pay the bills anymore!). It's that moment, of a connection, and the spine tingling chill/buzz you get when you pull off a great mix in the moment and the audience feel it too.
    - laumars 8y ago
      That wasn't what I was arguing though. I was saying vinyl feels nicer because it's more tactile but the audience shouldn't be groping your record collection. Feeling the music (rather than touching the media) is a different matter. You can emotionally connect with the music being played regardless of the playback medium.

platz 8y ago

For a long time in the U.K. they didn't even beat match, because being a DJ was about song selection and arrangement.

laumars 8y ago

I am an ex-techno DJ and have had quite a number of bookings in the UK as well as produced a few tracks of my own too. I made the switch to Ableton years ago when I found turntables actually hampered my creativity (and I don't say this likely since I was a competent in 3 decks and beat-mixing tracks of different time signatures - which is a hard skill to learn) Beat mixing is only a very small part of DJing and is not a creative part of the process. It's a technical skill - nothing more. Telling people they must learn how to beat mix on turntables before learning Ableton is like saying someone must learn how to paint with oil paints before they're allowed to use Photoshop. What actually matters is what enables performers to create the best live performance. One thing I will agree with you on is that I have more of an emotional connection with vinyl because I'm physically connecting with the playback media. I've never gotten the same emotional connection with CDs nor Ableton. However this is a tactile response and nothing to do with the music itself so the audience wouldn't experience that.

empath75 8y ago
> Beat mixing is only a very small part of DJing and is not a creative part of the process. It's a technical skill - nothing more. This. I spent years djing at clubs and opened for some of the biggest names in the world and know tons of djs and producers. Nobody talks about beatmatching except people just getting started. A lot of people learned it because it was the only way to mix records for a long time, but to me, it's an utterly pointless skill to have any more.
- kekebo 8y ago
  One downside of using laptops is that it can create a barrier between dj and crowd, I've seen lots of people who only learned djing on a laptop not mastering their performance anxiety and instead burying their face in the screen as much as possible. I always enjoyed when djs made an effort to be 'with the crowd' and always tried to do so myself - not having a screen around for every gig can help learning not to play like a turtle.
  - empath75 8y ago
    Fair point. I usually moved the screen off the side and used an apc40 to control it so I looked at the screen very little, other than to check which songs were mapped to which buttons. Certainly no more time away from the crowd than djs digging through record bags. FWIW, it's just as easy to spend all your time looking at your turntables when you're mixing, especially when you aren't very good at beatmatching. When I was first getting started, it often took me like 2-3 minutes to get the beatmatching right, and spent almost all of that time looking at the turntables and not the crowd. Of course when I sucked at beatmatching, "the crowd" i was playing for was 5 or 10 people, half of which came with me.
  - laumars 8y ago
    I've heard this argument made a thousand times and I still don't believe it because there are plenty of vinyl DJs who don't interact and lots of laptop DJs who are pulling all sorts of stunts on stage to entertain the crowds. What matters more than the medium is the individual who's playing from them. I've performed a lot, both from a laptop and from vinyl (and a fair few times with both too) and anecdotally I can say using a laptop has never defined how much of a spectacle I choose to make of myself. The amount I've slept beforehand or whisky I've drank has a much bigger effect ;)
- chiefalchemist 8y ago
  Yup. Beat mixing is the easier part. I've heard plenty of DJ's who could mix but had shite song selection and/or had no idea how to read and motivate a crowd. You can teach a monkey to beat match. You can't teach a monkey to be a DJ.
igotsideas 8y ago
> I am an ex-techno DJ and have had quite a number of bookings in the UK as well as produced a few tracks of my own too. Why does this matter? If you want dick swinging, I'll probably beat you anyday. I'm a DMC finalist and toured with a few big rap groups and on my own for more than half of my life. All this is irrelevant. We're talking about skills vs faking the funk here. > Beat mixing is only a very small part of DJing and is not a creative part of the process. It's a technical skill - nothing more. It is a part of djing and it is a creative part of the process. Maybe you didn't get creative with it and that's perfectly fine. However, others have gotten creative with it(Z-trip, dj shadow, cut chemist, jrocc, mr choc, daft punk, and many more). > Telling people they must learn how to beat mix on turntables before learning Ableton is like saying someone must learn how to paint with oil paints before they're allowed to use Photoshop. What actually matters is what enables performers to create the best live performance. So if you're going for face value then yes, I can go up on stage with my laptop, play an mp3, dance to the music in front of thousands, and entertain people all day. This is entertainment but this isn't djing. I'm talking about raw skill. Sounds like you prefer someone to lip sync than actual sing on stage. Same thing. > I've never gotten the same emotional connection with CDJs nor Ableton. However the audience wouldn't experience that. They will if you're good at your craft.
- MaddAgent 8y ago
  > I've never gotten the same emotional connection with CDJs nor Ableton. However the audience wouldn't experience that. >They will if you're good at your craft. This - 100%. I can't agree more. When you feel what you're doing, the audience should feel it also. That's what keeps me doing it now after 20+ years (when I don't really have to, in order to pay the bills anymore!). It's that moment, of a connection, and the spine tingling chill/buzz you get when you pull off a great mix in the moment and the audience feel it too.
  - laumars 8y ago
    That wasn't what I was arguing though. I was saying vinyl feels nicer because it's more tactile but the audience shouldn't be groping your record collection. Feeling the music (rather than touching the media) is a different matter. You can emotionally connect with the music being played regardless of the playback medium.