6 ms·

Either. Deeply seated racist beliefs are often honestly held, but that doesn't make them less shameful.

golergka 8y ago
Why do you think that racism would be the only reason to hold such a belief in this particular situation?
wycy 8y ago
I think in this case it probably wasn't meant to be racism on Boeing's part--Boeing just has a history of immediately blaming the pilots for every crash. Latent racism may have helped some people believe it was the pilots' fault, but I wouldn't ascribe the actual racism part to Boeing in this case.
- sokoloff 8y ago
  Pilot error is the leading cause of airplane crashes. If someone offers you an even money wager that pays you if the next crash will have pilot error as a significant cause, take the wager. I am at least twice as likely to kill my airplane than my airplane is to kill me.
  - SmellyGeekBoy 8y ago
    How many accidents blamed on "pilot error" are a result of the pilot not being given enough information to make the right decision, or given the wrong information? I'm not saying that pilots are completely faultless but if they're making mistakes we should look to improve the systems and procedures that allow them to make the right decisions, not start pointing fingers.
    - CaptainZapp 8y ago
      I'd wager that pilots, like any other professionals, make mistakes all the time. This, however, is mitigated by a regulatory, technological and cultural safety net, which usually corrects such mistakes. For example: There's an important cultural understanding that pilots admit safety relevant issues, even if they made a mistake in the process and not getting punished for it. The effect is that all involved entities learn from that and correct it in the future. When something really bad happens pilot error is mostly part of the puzzle, but the bad outcome is a sequence of problems, which lead to catastrophy. A great example is the worst disaster in civil aviation history ever[1], which ultimately was triggered by the error of a very experienced pilot. But there were a lot of small puzzle pieces, which needed to fall into place for this catastrophy to happen. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tenerife_airport_disaster https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tenerife_airport_disaster edit : spello
    - sokoloff 8y ago
      I agree with CaptainZapp’s comments next to this one. The process you describe does happen, but IMO, clearly articulating the facts and assigning findings of probable cause (the latter is what you term pointing fingers) is an essential element of that improvement process. The is a strong safety culture in aviation overall. It’s rare for one isolated mistake to result in a hull loss, but rather is usually a series of issues where the “holes in the Swiss cheese all line up”. No doubt Boeing and others are going to improve technical and human factors elements from this crash. It doesn’t help anyone in this process to not assign probable cause, IMO.

Why do you think that racism would be the only reason to hold such a belief in this particular situation?

wycy 8y ago

I think in this case it probably wasn't meant to be racism on Boeing's part--Boeing just has a history of immediately blaming the pilots for every crash. Latent racism may have helped some people believe it was the pilots' fault, but I wouldn't ascribe the actual racism part to Boeing in this case.

sokoloff 8y ago
Pilot error is the leading cause of airplane crashes. If someone offers you an even money wager that pays you if the next crash will have pilot error as a significant cause, take the wager. I am at least twice as likely to kill my airplane than my airplane is to kill me.
- SmellyGeekBoy 8y ago
  How many accidents blamed on "pilot error" are a result of the pilot not being given enough information to make the right decision, or given the wrong information? I'm not saying that pilots are completely faultless but if they're making mistakes we should look to improve the systems and procedures that allow them to make the right decisions, not start pointing fingers.
  - CaptainZapp 8y ago
    I'd wager that pilots, like any other professionals, make mistakes all the time. This, however, is mitigated by a regulatory, technological and cultural safety net, which usually corrects such mistakes. For example: There's an important cultural understanding that pilots admit safety relevant issues, even if they made a mistake in the process and not getting punished for it. The effect is that all involved entities learn from that and correct it in the future. When something really bad happens pilot error is mostly part of the puzzle, but the bad outcome is a sequence of problems, which lead to catastrophy. A great example is the worst disaster in civil aviation history ever[1], which ultimately was triggered by the error of a very experienced pilot. But there were a lot of small puzzle pieces, which needed to fall into place for this catastrophy to happen. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tenerife_airport_disaster https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tenerife_airport_disaster edit : spello
  - sokoloff 8y ago
    I agree with CaptainZapp’s comments next to this one. The process you describe does happen, but IMO, clearly articulating the facts and assigning findings of probable cause (the latter is what you term pointing fingers) is an essential element of that improvement process. The is a strong safety culture in aviation overall. It’s rare for one isolated mistake to result in a hull loss, but rather is usually a series of issues where the “holes in the Swiss cheese all line up”. No doubt Boeing and others are going to improve technical and human factors elements from this crash. It doesn’t help anyone in this process to not assign probable cause, IMO.