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> Which means the expectancy of the involvement of the judicial system Mob vengeance intermediated by the state is still mob vengeance. > SolaceQuantum also n
by KMag 8y ago
> Which means the expectancy of the involvement of the judicial system
Mob vengeance intermediated by the state is still mob vengeance.
> SolaceQuantum also never mentions "engineers."
The decision makers certainly included management and engineers, and the OP was ambiguous about which decision makers should be punished. I think my statement is just as true if amended to just read "management".
> It's already clear that in this case the "fox was guarding the hen house"
A conflict of interest is not proof that one is making decisions in bad faith. We should certainly strive to eliminate conflicts of interest.
On the other hand, to jump to the conclusion that decision makers are likely deserving of prison time shows a lack of perspective and empathy. I'm sure a lot of people at Boeing will carry a lot of guilt with them for the rest of their lives over this.
Maybe there were decisions made in bad faith, but I think we have far far too little information (and too much hindsight bias in the balance) at this point to determine if those making poor decisions were making them in bad faith, even if there was a clear conflict of interest.
It's comforting to believe that most tragedies are the result of evil people making decisions in bad faith, and that most tragedies can be avoided by identifying and punishing these evil people. The real world is seldom so black-and-white, and I strongly oppose our society's common knee-jerk reaction to quickly reach for imprisonment as the solution to the latest tragedy. By all means, punish people who make conscious decisions to harm their fellow humans, but many tragedies don't fit this simple narrative.
- peteradio 8y agoHow exactly would this classify as mob vengeance? Negligence in critical safety infrastructure is bad faith.
- KMag 8y agoThe OP said that if it's true that disabling MCAS made it impossible to trim the plane without losing too much altitude, that they hope those responsible for the decision to "go through with" (deploy?) MCAS are jailed. The poor design of the system is directly stated as the reason the OP hopes people are imprisoned. I'm al for an investigation. Publicly calling for jail time so prematurely, in a case that would surely be highly publicized and politicized, makes it even harder to conduct an impartial investigation and trial. When the public puts pressure on the courts to hand down a predetermined verdict and punishement and they are successful in their efforts to bias the process, that is mob vengeance.
- acqq 8y ago> punish people who make conscious decisions to harm their fellow humans, but many tragedies don't fit this simple narrative. Causing death of 350 people due to "intended" ("it's good for our business") negligence is enough to deserve an evaluation of the decisions made and the evaluation if the punishment is warranted (including the "jail time"). Especially the Boeing's top executives behavior after the first crash can't be defended, given everything we already know.
- KMag 8y agoI'm all for an investigation. I'm very much against public calls for jail time before we've been able to properly investigate the actions and intentions of the parties involved. The OP's stated justification for jail time is "[purely technical description of system functioning] ... if this is true, I sincerely hope [people are jailed]". My basic point is that when ther's a tragedy, there's a knee-jerk reaction to punish people regardless of mens rea. Putting pressure on courts for predetermined outcomes, particularly without regard to intent of the accused, is the slightly civilized version of getting out the torches and pitchforks. Deterrence requires interrupting the ill-intentioned thought process. If there are no ill intentions, then jail time has no deterrent effect. We may feel better if someone is punished, but if the public's feelings are the only positive outcome of punishing someone, then punishing them is barbaric. (Note that restitution is separate from punishment. Restitution, if possible, is still called for if there's no ill intent.)