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Whenever I go to a really old, really cool building, I think, “This building was built by men with chisels and hammers. How come the modern world, with all its

by DanI-S 16y ago

Whenever I go to a really old, really cool building, I think, “This building was built by men with chisels and hammers. How come the modern world, with all its power tools and advanced materials, can’t build such cool stuff?” The answer is “Banks won’t let you.” That's a fantastic opening sentence if ever there was one.

hugh3 16y ago
If you wanna build a really cool building out of stone, save up your money until you have enough to build it with cash. That's what the men who built those cool old buildings did.
- Alex3917 16y ago
  It also helps if you can wait until a period of enormous wealth inequality so that skilled labor is basically free.
  - jfb 16y ago
    Wait?
    - nikcub 16y ago
      Thats what Dubai and Abu Dhabi did. Waited for the slave labour to arrive
  - SkyMarshal 16y ago
    Give it a year or so, if the Govt and Fed can't stave off deflation anymore, will be perfect timing then.
  - HeyLaughingBoy 16y ago
    I don't have data, but I suspect that labor costs these days are lower than they were back then due to a greater use of machinery. e.g., a foundation trench that would have taken a dozen men a week to dig with pickaxes, shovels and wheelbarrows can be done with one guy and a BobCat in a day. Don't forget that technology offers massive leverage in construction.
- deleted 16y ago
  [deleted]
- jonhendry 16y ago
  Or they announced a special sale on indulgences.
  - c1utch 16y ago
    Doesn't Groupon sell those now?
    - jonhendry 16y ago
      I saw some online during a Woot-off, between LED toenail clippers and the 'bag of crap'.
      - SkyMarshal 16y ago
        That was either one of the more hilarious comments I've read on HN, or I'm too drunk to know any better. Either way, have an upboat.
- DevX101 16y ago
  If you're talking about centuries old buildings, wealth back then was usually accumulated by way of your family passing along wealth, your inclusion in the favored aristocratic class of the era, or through businesses built on slavery.
- sliverstorm 16y ago
  I think they mostly depended on: 1) extremely cheap to free labor. 2) community effort. Everybody contributed to important buildings. Private homes would be built by the entire family, and possibly neighbors too.
deleted 16y ago
[deleted]
invisible 16y ago
I immediately thought of this building I see frequently in Orlando: http://www.ferran-services.com/images/building_head.jpg http://www.ferran-services.com/images/building_head.jpg
wallflower 16y ago
Off-topic but 'The Affair of the Oaks' came to mind when you mentioned old school construction http://web.archive.org/web/20031121174515/http://www.new.ox.ac.uk/archives/trivia.html http://web.archive.org/web/20031121174515/http://www.new.ox.... http://beebo.org/smackerels/new-college.html http://beebo.org/smackerels/new-college.html
noonespecial 16y ago
I looked into having a small stone wall built a few years ago. It would have cost more than my house. I find it fascinating that after all the progress of the millennia, skillfully stacking stone is still one of the most costly things men can do.
- ahi 16y ago
  It gets more costly over time. There's not much that can be done to increase the efficiency of building a stone wall, except for prefab when it's possible. All other goods become cheaper to produce so the stone mason becomes more and more expensive in comparison. At least to some degree, the same principle applies to education and health care. I find it fascinating that the result of this effect is that it's unlikely to be able to build a high quality brick house ever again. Most brick houses today are just wood frames with prefab brick cladding. The brick row house tenements of 1910 are now the million dollar condos of 2010.
roel_v 16y ago
Well except that it isn't true. As many have remarked, those things weren't funded in the past by banks, but by kings or similar autocratic rulers. Secondly, many people chipped in for free or almost free for religious reasons. Thirdly, ornate buildings are simply out of style, that's why they're not being build so often any more. Fourthly, any modern sky scraper is technologically much more advanced than those old ones (who just took a long time because of all the details), and in that sense I'd argue just as 'cool' as the old ones. And lastly, intricate ornate buildings are still being build, even if only few and between - e.g. the Sagrada Familia.
cobralibre 16y ago
Whenever I go to a really old, really cool building, I think, "This building was built by men with chisels and hammers. How come the modern world, with all its power tools and advanced materials, can’t build such cool stuff?" The answer is "Banks won’t let you." A bit of literary trivia: This is exactly the insight that lies behind one of Ezra Pound's most famous poems, "Canto XLV": http://emsh.calarts.edu/alumni/bkeresey/ http://emsh.calarts.edu/alumni/bkeresey/ (Note that I don't intend to suggest any deeper comparison to Pound. For him, the idea was an insidious one, leading him on a dark path that would take him from Fascist Italy to a psychiatric institution for the criminally insane in Washington, D.C.)

by DanI-S 16y ago

hugh3 16y ago

If you wanna build a really cool building out of stone, save up your money until you have enough to build it with cash. That's what the men who built those cool old buildings did.

Alex3917 16y ago
It also helps if you can wait until a period of enormous wealth inequality so that skilled labor is basically free.
- jfb 16y ago
  Wait?
  - nikcub 16y ago
    Thats what Dubai and Abu Dhabi did. Waited for the slave labour to arrive
- SkyMarshal 16y ago
  Give it a year or so, if the Govt and Fed can't stave off deflation anymore, will be perfect timing then.
- HeyLaughingBoy 16y ago
  I don't have data, but I suspect that labor costs these days are lower than they were back then due to a greater use of machinery. e.g., a foundation trench that would have taken a dozen men a week to dig with pickaxes, shovels and wheelbarrows can be done with one guy and a BobCat in a day. Don't forget that technology offers massive leverage in construction.
deleted 16y ago
[deleted]
jonhendry 16y ago
Or they announced a special sale on indulgences.
- c1utch 16y ago
  Doesn't Groupon sell those now?
  - jonhendry 16y ago
    I saw some online during a Woot-off, between LED toenail clippers and the 'bag of crap'.
    - SkyMarshal 16y ago
      That was either one of the more hilarious comments I've read on HN, or I'm too drunk to know any better. Either way, have an upboat.
DevX101 16y ago
If you're talking about centuries old buildings, wealth back then was usually accumulated by way of your family passing along wealth, your inclusion in the favored aristocratic class of the era, or through businesses built on slavery.
sliverstorm 16y ago
I think they mostly depended on: 1) extremely cheap to free labor. 2) community effort. Everybody contributed to important buildings. Private homes would be built by the entire family, and possibly neighbors too.

deleted 16y ago

[deleted]

invisible 16y ago

I immediately thought of this building I see frequently in Orlando: http://www.ferran-services.com/images/building_head.jpg http://www.ferran-services.com/images/building_head.jpg

wallflower 16y ago

Off-topic but 'The Affair of the Oaks' came to mind when you mentioned old school construction http://web.archive.org/web/20031121174515/http://www.new.ox.ac.uk/archives/trivia.html http://web.archive.org/web/20031121174515/http://www.new.ox.... http://beebo.org/smackerels/new-college.html http://beebo.org/smackerels/new-college.html

noonespecial 16y ago

I looked into having a small stone wall built a few years ago. It would have cost more than my house. I find it fascinating that after all the progress of the millennia, skillfully stacking stone is still one of the most costly things men can do.

ahi 16y ago
It gets more costly over time. There's not much that can be done to increase the efficiency of building a stone wall, except for prefab when it's possible. All other goods become cheaper to produce so the stone mason becomes more and more expensive in comparison. At least to some degree, the same principle applies to education and health care. I find it fascinating that the result of this effect is that it's unlikely to be able to build a high quality brick house ever again. Most brick houses today are just wood frames with prefab brick cladding. The brick row house tenements of 1910 are now the million dollar condos of 2010.

roel_v 16y ago

Well except that it isn't true. As many have remarked, those things weren't funded in the past by banks, but by kings or similar autocratic rulers. Secondly, many people chipped in for free or almost free for religious reasons. Thirdly, ornate buildings are simply out of style, that's why they're not being build so often any more. Fourthly, any modern sky scraper is technologically much more advanced than those old ones (who just took a long time because of all the details), and in that sense I'd argue just as 'cool' as the old ones. And lastly, intricate ornate buildings are still being build, even if only few and between - e.g. the Sagrada Familia.

cobralibre 16y ago

Whenever I go to a really old, really cool building, I think, "This building was built by men with chisels and hammers. How come the modern world, with all its power tools and advanced materials, can’t build such cool stuff?" The answer is "Banks won’t let you." A bit of literary trivia: This is exactly the insight that lies behind one of Ezra Pound's most famous poems, "Canto XLV": http://emsh.calarts.edu/alumni/bkeresey/ http://emsh.calarts.edu/alumni/bkeresey/ (Note that I don't intend to suggest any deeper comparison to Pound. For him, the idea was an insidious one, leading him on a dark path that would take him from Fascist Italy to a psychiatric institution for the criminally insane in Washington, D.C.)