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> * I don't particularly look forward to the era of "SELECT name, current_location FROM citizens WHERE dissidence_level >= .6 ORDER BY dissidence_level DESC". B

> * I don't particularly look forward to the era of "SELECT name, current_location FROM citizens WHERE dissidence_level >= .6 ORDER BY dissidence_level DESC". But until that happens...* Well, that kind of already happened at least during WWII when e.g. documents had to be burned in city halls to avoid that they would fall into the German's hands, e.g.: On 27 March 1943, a cell of the Dutch resistance committed an attack on the municipal register of Amsterdam. The German occupier had found this register to be extremely convenient: it contained the details of 70.000 Jews in Amsterdam. Also, it proved useful as a means of cross-checking information on identity cards. https://medium.com/@hansdezwart/during-world-war-ii-we-did-have-something-to-hide-40689565c550 https://medium.com/@hansdezwart/during-world-war-ii-we-did-h... But apparently people have forgotten this or did not abstract/expand such events to apply them to current tech (but I was reminded about this by my father, who is german [now some DB will store that zepearl's father is german, damn...], when I was having a discussion about Facebook with him many years ago). The Yugoslavian (ethnical) conflict was too early from a technological point of view, but more recently, for Erdogan (Turkey) having access to a local company (DB) that tracked preferences/relationships/commentaries of a majority of its population would have been pure gold to identify people against him, puah.

slg 8y ago
I just recently argued this on HN, but this is a bad example because it ends up vilifying the census takers as if they were complicit in the crimes of the Nazis. Censuses are a hugely important part of the basic infrastructure of democracy and knowing the size and makeup of the citizenry is paramount to serving the needs of that citizenry. The remote possibility that this information can eventually be used by a totalitarian regime shouldn't be the sole reason that this information isn't collected. Instead there should be an assessment done on whether the value of having that information outweighs that potentially remote downside. I think the census is one area in which that is the case. Blaming the census for assisting in the Nazis crimes would be like blaming the transportation infrastructure. Sure, it made things easier, but no one in the US would ever suggest we get rid of the interstate highway system because "What happens if Nazis take over the US?"
- nostrademons 8y ago
  Ironically, the interstate highway system exists because it was useful to the Nazis. Eisenhower authorized its construction because as a general in Europe, he saw firsthand how useful the German road network was in quickly deploying troops to wherever they were needed.
  - slg 8y ago
    I realize that and that was partially my point. No one worries about the interstate highway system falling into the wrong hands even though it is much more linked to military power than the census. So why do we worry about the census falling into the wrong hands?
    - zepearl 8y ago
      Ok, I can agree with this :)
  - chalst 8y ago
    Interesting. Deutsche Welle has a nice piece on how the Nazis made only limited and fitful progress in developing the existing Autobahn network: https://www.dw.com/en/the-myth-of-hitlers-role-in-building-the-autobahn/a-16144981 https://www.dw.com/en/the-myth-of-hitlers-role-in-building-t...
    - zepearl 8y ago
      A documentary on one of the german channels said the same some months ago... .
- zepearl 8y ago
  Well, I think that you're wrong because you're focusing only on the "census" area - this reflects in my opinion the typical "black or white"-tendencies/extremes or today's times. I was trying to post a simple example - the event mentioned by the article is not the only occurrence and I guess that city halls had as well records about e.g. votes (which would relate a person to a specific party/movement/way-of-thinking), which would not be related directly to census but which had to be destructed as well. I do not blame the census (and I agree that the pros of census overweight the cons). It's just that the infos that we can release today are not gathered and administered by the national-census-authority and that the their detail go in some areas well beyond what the census would gather.

slg 8y ago

I just recently argued this on HN, but this is a bad example because it ends up vilifying the census takers as if they were complicit in the crimes of the Nazis. Censuses are a hugely important part of the basic infrastructure of democracy and knowing the size and makeup of the citizenry is paramount to serving the needs of that citizenry. The remote possibility that this information can eventually be used by a totalitarian regime shouldn't be the sole reason that this information isn't collected. Instead there should be an assessment done on whether the value of having that information outweighs that potentially remote downside. I think the census is one area in which that is the case. Blaming the census for assisting in the Nazis crimes would be like blaming the transportation infrastructure. Sure, it made things easier, but no one in the US would ever suggest we get rid of the interstate highway system because "What happens if Nazis take over the US?"

nostrademons 8y ago
Ironically, the interstate highway system exists because it was useful to the Nazis. Eisenhower authorized its construction because as a general in Europe, he saw firsthand how useful the German road network was in quickly deploying troops to wherever they were needed.
- slg 8y ago
  I realize that and that was partially my point. No one worries about the interstate highway system falling into the wrong hands even though it is much more linked to military power than the census. So why do we worry about the census falling into the wrong hands?
  - zepearl 8y ago
    Ok, I can agree with this :)
- chalst 8y ago
  Interesting. Deutsche Welle has a nice piece on how the Nazis made only limited and fitful progress in developing the existing Autobahn network: https://www.dw.com/en/the-myth-of-hitlers-role-in-building-the-autobahn/a-16144981 https://www.dw.com/en/the-myth-of-hitlers-role-in-building-t...
  - zepearl 8y ago
    A documentary on one of the german channels said the same some months ago... .
zepearl 8y ago
Well, I think that you're wrong because you're focusing only on the "census" area - this reflects in my opinion the typical "black or white"-tendencies/extremes or today's times. I was trying to post a simple example - the event mentioned by the article is not the only occurrence and I guess that city halls had as well records about e.g. votes (which would relate a person to a specific party/movement/way-of-thinking), which would not be related directly to census but which had to be destructed as well. I do not blame the census (and I agree that the pros of census overweight the cons). It's just that the infos that we can release today are not gathered and administered by the national-census-authority and that the their detail go in some areas well beyond what the census would gather.