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Enough with the paternalism. Let me use my data as I see fit. It's mine. Not yours. Stop putting limits on it. If I want to trade my information for money I sh

Enough with the paternalism. Let me use my data as I see fit. It's mine. Not yours. Stop putting limits on it. If I want to trade my information for money I should be allowed to. The problem with you guys is not that your ultimate goal isn't data ownership. The problem with you is that your ultimate goal is that you own and control everyone's data. You want to make the rules as to what they can do with it.

jerf 8y ago
Are you using your data as you see fit? By your own choice? Even if the first answer was "yes" (and, to be honest, it still isn't; if you had control I virtually guarantee that you would choose to change something about how it is distributed), this answer is certainly "no". You're not choosing right now. You're having done to you. If you want to complain about people making choices about what to do with your data, I can't fathom why you'd file that complaint against someone who wants to give you vastly more control than you have now.
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
- icebraining 8y ago
  What do you mean? Sure, currently personal data is being used without much control by the person. But the GP is not proposing more control, they're saying people should still not have choice, as that may harm the marginalized.
  - floe 8y ago
    I'm not saying that people shouldn't have the choice whether or not to sell their data - I'm saying that even if they have that choice, it doesn't prevent many society-wide harms. (Edit: Which implies that we do need to restrict some uses of large datasets that would cause these harms.) I'm not sure how you would characterize my position in terms of increasing or decreasing 'control' or 'choice' - I find those terms tricky to apply in this case, so I prefer to apply concrete concepts like 'harm'.
    - scarejunba 8y ago
      Harm is not a concrete concept in your characterization. It's pretty non-concrete and you've demonstrated no manner in which it occurs under the circumstance, only the possibility of it occurring. If my friends and I all decide to self-insure as a group and we will pool our money to do so and we all agree to be covered by our collective-owned policy only so long as we submit our data in to the group, I want that to be permissible. This is us choosing to interact with each other as a freely-associating group. That's our business. I don't want it restricted because I have lots of friends. And I'm sick of people continually taking away my right to use my data with other people who choose to use their data. There is a societal cost to not allowing freedom. I'm not game for some Communist-style Committee for Personal Use of Personal Data Voluntarily Given. Yes, CoPUPeDVoG is not okay.
    - icebraining 8y ago
      If we need to restrict, that means we need to take away some choice. It's a straight implication. I don't mean that pejoratively, I'm generally in favor of the idea.
- scarejunba 8y ago
  I am comfortable with my data being used as it is currently. I do not require further restrictions. I consent to the collection that is done currently. > If you want to complain about people making choices about what to do with your data, I can't fathom why you'd file that complaint against someone who wants to give you vastly more control than you have now. Vastly more control? By banning sharing of my information with my insurer? Brotherman, I'd like you to explain why you believe this to be more control.
Frondo 8y ago
I see no such claims that they have any desire to own and control everyone's data, and I don't see how personal jibes like that are advancing any dialogue here.
- scarejunba 8y ago
  You don't see it? When they want to restrict me from sharing my health history with an insurer?
floe 8y ago
When you're talking about 'me' or 'my data' here, do you mean 'me' as in 'scarejunba' or 'me' as in 'the hypothetical CEO of a large health insurance corporation that wants to set discriminatory prices based on a huge data trove'? When you're talking about 'you' here, do you mean that I, 'floe', personally want to own and control all of your data? Or do you mean 'you' as in 'every single person working to build democratically-controlled restrictions on the use of data'?
- scarejunba 8y ago
  I, 'scarejunba', wish to share my data with a health insurer. You, 'floe', wish to stop this. I consider this a concrete attack on my autonomy with nebulous positive value.
  - floe 8y ago
    Please see my reply to icebraining in this thread.

jerf 8y ago

Are you using your data as you see fit? By your own choice? Even if the first answer was "yes" (and, to be honest, it still isn't; if you had control I virtually guarantee that you would choose to change something about how it is distributed), this answer is certainly "no". You're not choosing right now. You're having done to you. If you want to complain about people making choices about what to do with your data, I can't fathom why you'd file that complaint against someone who wants to give you vastly more control than you have now.

deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
icebraining 8y ago
What do you mean? Sure, currently personal data is being used without much control by the person. But the GP is not proposing more control, they're saying people should still not have choice, as that may harm the marginalized.
- floe 8y ago
  I'm not saying that people shouldn't have the choice whether or not to sell their data - I'm saying that even if they have that choice, it doesn't prevent many society-wide harms. (Edit: Which implies that we do need to restrict some uses of large datasets that would cause these harms.) I'm not sure how you would characterize my position in terms of increasing or decreasing 'control' or 'choice' - I find those terms tricky to apply in this case, so I prefer to apply concrete concepts like 'harm'.
  - scarejunba 8y ago
    Harm is not a concrete concept in your characterization. It's pretty non-concrete and you've demonstrated no manner in which it occurs under the circumstance, only the possibility of it occurring. If my friends and I all decide to self-insure as a group and we will pool our money to do so and we all agree to be covered by our collective-owned policy only so long as we submit our data in to the group, I want that to be permissible. This is us choosing to interact with each other as a freely-associating group. That's our business. I don't want it restricted because I have lots of friends. And I'm sick of people continually taking away my right to use my data with other people who choose to use their data. There is a societal cost to not allowing freedom. I'm not game for some Communist-style Committee for Personal Use of Personal Data Voluntarily Given. Yes, CoPUPeDVoG is not okay.
  - icebraining 8y ago
    If we need to restrict, that means we need to take away some choice. It's a straight implication. I don't mean that pejoratively, I'm generally in favor of the idea.
scarejunba 8y ago
I am comfortable with my data being used as it is currently. I do not require further restrictions. I consent to the collection that is done currently. > If you want to complain about people making choices about what to do with your data, I can't fathom why you'd file that complaint against someone who wants to give you vastly more control than you have now. Vastly more control? By banning sharing of my information with my insurer? Brotherman, I'd like you to explain why you believe this to be more control.

Frondo 8y ago

I see no such claims that they have any desire to own and control everyone's data, and I don't see how personal jibes like that are advancing any dialogue here.

scarejunba 8y ago
You don't see it? When they want to restrict me from sharing my health history with an insurer?

floe 8y ago

When you're talking about 'me' or 'my data' here, do you mean 'me' as in 'scarejunba' or 'me' as in 'the hypothetical CEO of a large health insurance corporation that wants to set discriminatory prices based on a huge data trove'? When you're talking about 'you' here, do you mean that I, 'floe', personally want to own and control all of your data? Or do you mean 'you' as in 'every single person working to build democratically-controlled restrictions on the use of data'?

scarejunba 8y ago
I, 'scarejunba', wish to share my data with a health insurer. You, 'floe', wish to stop this. I consider this a concrete attack on my autonomy with nebulous positive value.
- floe 8y ago
  Please see my reply to icebraining in this thread.