10 ms·

Linus: People take me much too seriously, I can't say stupid crap anymore

68 points by donatj 8y ago

true_tuna 8y ago
When I was a child I thought as a child and I spoke as a child, but when I became a man I put away childish things.
- giancarlostoro 8y ago
  1 Corinthians 13:11
  - LyndsySimon 8y ago
    Indeed. I'm typically not one to quote Scripture in a professional setting, but in this case I'd like to do so because I feel that it illustrates an important point that is secular in nature. Note that I am in no way attempting to proselytize with this, so please don't take it in that way. Here's 1 Corinthians 13 in its entirety: > If I could speak all the languages of earth and of angels, but didn’t love others, I would only be a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal. If I had the gift of prophecy, and if I understood all of God’s secret plans and possessed all knowledge, and if I had such faith that I could move mountains, but didn’t love others, I would be nothing. If I gave everything I have to the poor and even sacrificed my body, I could boast about it; but if I didn’t love others, I would have gained nothing. > Love is patient and kind. Love is not jealous or boastful or proud or rude. It does not demand its own way. It is not irritable, and it keeps no record of being wronged. It does not rejoice about injustice but rejoices whenever the truth wins out. Love never gives up, never loses faith, is always hopeful, and endures through every circumstance. > Prophecy and speaking in unknown languages and special knowledge will become useless. But love will last forever! Now our knowledge is partial and incomplete, and even the gift of prophecy reveals only part of the whole picture! But when the time of perfection comes, these partial things will become useless. > When I was a child, I spoke and thought and reasoned as a child. But when I grew up, I put away childish things. Now we see things imperfectly, like puzzling reflections in a mirror, but then we will see everything with perfect clarity. All that I know now is partial and incomplete, but then I will know everything completely, just as God now knows me completely. > Three things will last forever—faith, hope, and love—and the greatest of these is love. What I take from this is that you should be aware of the limits of your own perspective. No matter how strongly held your views on an issue and no matter how important they are to you, someone else may not share them - or may directly oppose them. If your views are right they will win out in the end and there is no need for you to attack or harm others (emotionally or physically) over them. At the end of the day, whether you were right or wrong in the views you held, how you treat others is how your life is measured.
    - deleted 8y ago
      [deleted]
    - giancarlostoro 8y ago
      What I take from it (from my Christian background) is simple, you could perform all types of works, miracles, good deeds (feeding the homeless and what have you) but if you did none of it out of love, it's worthless. You can have all the faith and hope in the world, but if you have no love, it's not worth anything. The word love is tough to talk about these days since so many people have their own definition of it, this love being the Biblical definition of love since it's in a Biblical context. In fact, the context for 1 Corinthians 13 is the previous chapter: 1 Corinthians 12 where Paul writes about the church arguing over spiritual gifts, and he humbles them by saying something even simpler is more important than all of that, because they are arguing about the wrong things, basically who does the most works or miracles, but it's all worthless if you can't even love one another. Anytime I try to make an opinion about a Bible verse or chapter I go back and read the previous verse or chapter for context, it clarifies things a lot. I'm not disagreeing with you btw, the point still remains, you can have really strong views on something, but they may not matter, you may find out (from a Christian viewpoint) in the end that they were partially right, or fully wrong and all the arguments were a waste of your life when you had better things to do. I used to really get into theological arguments on Facebook Christian / Bible groups, but it's kind of a waste of time, most people reading what I have to say likely already made up their minds.
- draw_down 8y ago
  Also, heavy hangs the head that wears the crown.
- LyndsySimon 8y ago
  I'll add: "Watch your thoughts; They become words. Watch your words; They become deeds. Watch your deeds; They become habits. Watch your habits; They become character. Character is everything." - Ralph Waldo Emerson
- ricardobeat 8y ago
  It’s nice of you to proclaim superior morals and character, but there is an underlying story of modern media, society and political correctness that is relevant here.
  - mj_olnir 8y ago
    They weren't proclaiming superior morals, rather quoting a rather relevant portion of (what a quick Google search determines as) the Christian Bible. I won't comment on the second half but it only toxifies conversation to assume the worst in others.
    - ricardobeat 8y ago
      > it only toxifies conversation to assume the worst in others Isn't that what the parent comment did? That's the only reason I commented - i.e. implying that not being serious equals being childish. Quote or not.
- ohazi 8y ago
  Is it wrong that I thought you were quoting this line from Hackers? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IyWv6snuZLk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IyWv6snuZLk
  - danbolt 8y ago
    I jumped to Cowboy Bebop's use of the quote, so don't feel too bad about it.
- kgwxd 8y ago
  Sounds like something a stuck-up asshole would say.
- pritambaral 8y ago
  Man is most nearly himself when he achieves the seriousness of a child at play.
_bxg1 8y ago
The irony in this headline is strong
- _bxg1 8y ago
  For context: in another part of the interview he lamented the fact that every opinion he shares becomes a news headline
stirfrykitty 8y ago
I for one despise the political correctness that has occurred/is occurring in the current online communities. Anything and everything can and will be misconstrued to suit the needs of the "offended". Offense is taken, not given. I am sick and tired of the entire SJW mindset that has permeated the WWW and development circles. What was "innocent" a few years ago is now grounds for doxxing, shutting down of accounts, getting people fired, you name it. It seems that "tolerance" is only tolerated if it is agreed with. Voltaire comes to mind here. I never thought Linus was in bad form. His project, his rules. Ditto Theo de Raadt, who I think is a great project leader. I've heard him speak more than once, and he is a very nice guy. Like most leaders of tough projects, these guys endure massive amounts of BS from BS artists, and they need to be able to trounce the idiots and expose them. I have a feeling the majority of people would disagree with me anymore, but then again, my mindset and attitude were largely set by the military long ago, so I like strong leaders who don't brook BS.
- staticassertion 8y ago
  Yeah, crazy that people want to work on a project without being berated publicly and called incompetent on a mailing list. Those darn SJWs!!
  - stirfrykitty 8y ago
    If you cannot handle the heat, leave the kitchen. If a developer submits patches or bits of code that haven't been tested and/or says dumb things that developers of that caliber shouldn't, I don't see any reason not to call them out publicly. Open source projects, open source comments. I don't want to live or work in a world where I have to constantly guard my tongue for fear of "offending" someone, even though I know offense is taken and not given. It seems like everyone is just so defensive anymore and for why? I'm not bothered by any of it.
    - staticassertion 8y ago
      "You're a fucking moron" - Linus Torvalds
beering 8y ago
Sorry Linus, you can't both be BDFL of the world's most popular OS and be able to "stupid crap". Given the choice between the two, I think it's good he's taking some time to work on the "stupid crap" part.
- gridlockd 8y ago
  > Sorry Linus, you can't both be BDFL of the world's most popular OS and be able to "stupid crap". Yes you can. He has been BDFL for the "most popular" OS for the vast majority of its lifetime while occasionally saying "stupid crap". Who is to say it hurt Linux in any significant way? Frankly, if you're one of these tone-policing developers (not gonna name names) then I don't want you on the Linux project. Linux is too important to be engulfed in this anglo-centric culture war that is going on right now.
tomohawk 8y ago
This illustrates the folly of rule/law keeping. You can make all of the codes of conduct you want, but what they really serve to do is enhance the power of the rule makers rather make any real progress. Real leadership is expressed through relationships, not rules. Linus apologized because he cared about those relationships. He changed his behavior to enhance those relationships and encourage new ones.
js2 8y ago
This zdnet piece doesn't add anything, besides ads, to the Linux Journal interview which was discussed here yesterday: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19559970 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19559970
sascha_sl 8y ago
Don't read the comments... don't read the comments...
village-idiot 8y ago
Success comes with its own punishments. The consequences of prestige and power is that you have to guard your words more carefully, because more people are paying attention.
munchbunny 8y ago
This is a concept that any leader needs to take to heart. If you want your words to be taken seriously, you can't simultaneously expect people to always intuit when you do not mean your words seriously. Since humor often carries some grain of truth, you have to be careful that your people don't interpret the wrong grain of truth. I've seen this several times where a CEO cracks a joke and the employees take it the wrong way, then culture changes weirdly and nobody realizes that it was a miscommunication over a joke.

68 points by donatj 8y ago

true_tuna 8y ago

When I was a child I thought as a child and I spoke as a child, but when I became a man I put away childish things.

giancarlostoro 8y ago
1 Corinthians 13:11
- LyndsySimon 8y ago
  Indeed. I'm typically not one to quote Scripture in a professional setting, but in this case I'd like to do so because I feel that it illustrates an important point that is secular in nature. Note that I am in no way attempting to proselytize with this, so please don't take it in that way. Here's 1 Corinthians 13 in its entirety: > If I could speak all the languages of earth and of angels, but didn’t love others, I would only be a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal. If I had the gift of prophecy, and if I understood all of God’s secret plans and possessed all knowledge, and if I had such faith that I could move mountains, but didn’t love others, I would be nothing. If I gave everything I have to the poor and even sacrificed my body, I could boast about it; but if I didn’t love others, I would have gained nothing. > Love is patient and kind. Love is not jealous or boastful or proud or rude. It does not demand its own way. It is not irritable, and it keeps no record of being wronged. It does not rejoice about injustice but rejoices whenever the truth wins out. Love never gives up, never loses faith, is always hopeful, and endures through every circumstance. > Prophecy and speaking in unknown languages and special knowledge will become useless. But love will last forever! Now our knowledge is partial and incomplete, and even the gift of prophecy reveals only part of the whole picture! But when the time of perfection comes, these partial things will become useless. > When I was a child, I spoke and thought and reasoned as a child. But when I grew up, I put away childish things. Now we see things imperfectly, like puzzling reflections in a mirror, but then we will see everything with perfect clarity. All that I know now is partial and incomplete, but then I will know everything completely, just as God now knows me completely. > Three things will last forever—faith, hope, and love—and the greatest of these is love. What I take from this is that you should be aware of the limits of your own perspective. No matter how strongly held your views on an issue and no matter how important they are to you, someone else may not share them - or may directly oppose them. If your views are right they will win out in the end and there is no need for you to attack or harm others (emotionally or physically) over them. At the end of the day, whether you were right or wrong in the views you held, how you treat others is how your life is measured.
  - deleted 8y ago
    [deleted]
  - giancarlostoro 8y ago
    What I take from it (from my Christian background) is simple, you could perform all types of works, miracles, good deeds (feeding the homeless and what have you) but if you did none of it out of love, it's worthless. You can have all the faith and hope in the world, but if you have no love, it's not worth anything. The word love is tough to talk about these days since so many people have their own definition of it, this love being the Biblical definition of love since it's in a Biblical context. In fact, the context for 1 Corinthians 13 is the previous chapter: 1 Corinthians 12 where Paul writes about the church arguing over spiritual gifts, and he humbles them by saying something even simpler is more important than all of that, because they are arguing about the wrong things, basically who does the most works or miracles, but it's all worthless if you can't even love one another. Anytime I try to make an opinion about a Bible verse or chapter I go back and read the previous verse or chapter for context, it clarifies things a lot. I'm not disagreeing with you btw, the point still remains, you can have really strong views on something, but they may not matter, you may find out (from a Christian viewpoint) in the end that they were partially right, or fully wrong and all the arguments were a waste of your life when you had better things to do. I used to really get into theological arguments on Facebook Christian / Bible groups, but it's kind of a waste of time, most people reading what I have to say likely already made up their minds.
draw_down 8y ago
Also, heavy hangs the head that wears the crown.
LyndsySimon 8y ago
I'll add: "Watch your thoughts; They become words. Watch your words; They become deeds. Watch your deeds; They become habits. Watch your habits; They become character. Character is everything." - Ralph Waldo Emerson
ricardobeat 8y ago
It’s nice of you to proclaim superior morals and character, but there is an underlying story of modern media, society and political correctness that is relevant here.
- mj_olnir 8y ago
  They weren't proclaiming superior morals, rather quoting a rather relevant portion of (what a quick Google search determines as) the Christian Bible. I won't comment on the second half but it only toxifies conversation to assume the worst in others.
  - ricardobeat 8y ago
    > it only toxifies conversation to assume the worst in others Isn't that what the parent comment did? That's the only reason I commented - i.e. implying that not being serious equals being childish. Quote or not.
ohazi 8y ago
Is it wrong that I thought you were quoting this line from Hackers? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IyWv6snuZLk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IyWv6snuZLk
- danbolt 8y ago
  I jumped to Cowboy Bebop's use of the quote, so don't feel too bad about it.
kgwxd 8y ago
Sounds like something a stuck-up asshole would say.
pritambaral 8y ago
Man is most nearly himself when he achieves the seriousness of a child at play.

_bxg1 8y ago

The irony in this headline is strong

_bxg1 8y ago
For context: in another part of the interview he lamented the fact that every opinion he shares becomes a news headline

stirfrykitty 8y ago

I for one despise the political correctness that has occurred/is occurring in the current online communities. Anything and everything can and will be misconstrued to suit the needs of the "offended". Offense is taken, not given. I am sick and tired of the entire SJW mindset that has permeated the WWW and development circles. What was "innocent" a few years ago is now grounds for doxxing, shutting down of accounts, getting people fired, you name it. It seems that "tolerance" is only tolerated if it is agreed with. Voltaire comes to mind here. I never thought Linus was in bad form. His project, his rules. Ditto Theo de Raadt, who I think is a great project leader. I've heard him speak more than once, and he is a very nice guy. Like most leaders of tough projects, these guys endure massive amounts of BS from BS artists, and they need to be able to trounce the idiots and expose them. I have a feeling the majority of people would disagree with me anymore, but then again, my mindset and attitude were largely set by the military long ago, so I like strong leaders who don't brook BS.

staticassertion 8y ago
Yeah, crazy that people want to work on a project without being berated publicly and called incompetent on a mailing list. Those darn SJWs!!
- stirfrykitty 8y ago
  If you cannot handle the heat, leave the kitchen. If a developer submits patches or bits of code that haven't been tested and/or says dumb things that developers of that caliber shouldn't, I don't see any reason not to call them out publicly. Open source projects, open source comments. I don't want to live or work in a world where I have to constantly guard my tongue for fear of "offending" someone, even though I know offense is taken and not given. It seems like everyone is just so defensive anymore and for why? I'm not bothered by any of it.
  - staticassertion 8y ago
    "You're a fucking moron" - Linus Torvalds

beering 8y ago

Sorry Linus, you can't both be BDFL of the world's most popular OS and be able to "stupid crap". Given the choice between the two, I think it's good he's taking some time to work on the "stupid crap" part.

gridlockd 8y ago
> Sorry Linus, you can't both be BDFL of the world's most popular OS and be able to "stupid crap". Yes you can. He has been BDFL for the "most popular" OS for the vast majority of its lifetime while occasionally saying "stupid crap". Who is to say it hurt Linux in any significant way? Frankly, if you're one of these tone-policing developers (not gonna name names) then I don't want you on the Linux project. Linux is too important to be engulfed in this anglo-centric culture war that is going on right now.

tomohawk 8y ago

This illustrates the folly of rule/law keeping. You can make all of the codes of conduct you want, but what they really serve to do is enhance the power of the rule makers rather make any real progress. Real leadership is expressed through relationships, not rules. Linus apologized because he cared about those relationships. He changed his behavior to enhance those relationships and encourage new ones.

js2 8y ago

This zdnet piece doesn't add anything, besides ads, to the Linux Journal interview which was discussed here yesterday: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19559970 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19559970

sascha_sl 8y ago

Don't read the comments... don't read the comments...

village-idiot 8y ago

Success comes with its own punishments. The consequences of prestige and power is that you have to guard your words more carefully, because more people are paying attention.

munchbunny 8y ago

This is a concept that any leader needs to take to heart. If you want your words to be taken seriously, you can't simultaneously expect people to always intuit when you do not mean your words seriously. Since humor often carries some grain of truth, you have to be careful that your people don't interpret the wrong grain of truth. I've seen this several times where a CEO cracks a joke and the employees take it the wrong way, then culture changes weirdly and nobody realizes that it was a miscommunication over a joke.