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"...he clammed up, taking the Fifth, and citing constitutional rights against unwarranted searches. ...border agents told him he had no constitutional nor any

"...he clammed up, taking the Fifth, and citing constitutional rights against unwarranted searches. ...border agents told him he had no constitutional nor any legal protections, and threatened him with criminal charges should he not concede to the search. ...he was eventually allowed to leave with his belongings, the devices still locked, and no charges were pressed." My goodness! I guess those protections did exit after all! :) Guidelines: -Goons can lie to you all they want. Never budge. -Politely refuse, and remain cordial. Stay strong mentally. -Make sure your devices are turned off prior to even leaving for the airport. This is the sick reality we live in.

vageli 8y ago
Border agents may lie about your rights? Is there no Miranda equivalent for this type of detainment?
- efficax 8y ago
  The border agents are in fact correct. The Supreme court has ruled that US citizens have no constitutional protections against search and seizure or basically anything else on the border of the US: https://www.aclu.org/other/constitution-100-mile-border-zone https://www.aclu.org/other/constitution-100-mile-border-zone Also police are allowed to lie about anything they want during interrogations.
  - kemitche 8y ago
    I feel like there's a difference between "lying about the facts of an investigation, including what they know or don't know, during questioning" and "misrepresenting the rights of the accused." The latter feels like a serious problem that should get rectified.
- Dangeranger 8y ago
  There is not. Customs and Border Patrol operate under a special set of circumstances within ports of entry. You do not have the right to have an attorney present during the interrogation, you can have your personal belongings confiscated, you can be held without charge for up to four hours for any "reasonable" suspicion. These same rules apply within one hundred miles of the United States border. So if you live near the any ocean, Great Lakes, the Mexican border or Canadian border, you live under a different set of rights than the rest of America.
  - sangnoir 8y ago
    You forgot "any international airport" on your list of ports of entry used to determine the 100-mile constitution-free zone.
  - 0815test 8y ago
    > So if you live near the any ocean, Great Lakes, the Mexican border or Canadian border, you live under a different set of rights than the rest of America. Interesting. You'd think that "real America" was just a turn of phrase - turns out that it isn't, that there is a Real America and that it does care far more about protecting individual rights.
    - lisper 8y ago
      > there is a Real America and that it does care far more about protecting individual rights No, there isn't. Civil rights get trampled regularly outside the 100 mile Constitution-free zone too, just under different pretexts.
  - Balgair 8y ago
    Or an international airport. Sorry Denver!
  - altmind 8y ago
    > [100-mile] border zone is home to 65.3 percent of the entire U.S. population, and around 75 percent of the U.S. Hispanic population
    - fernandotakai 8y ago
      this ACLU article shows exactly this https://www.aclu.org/other/constitution-100-mile-border-zone https://www.aclu.org/other/constitution-100-mile-border-zone
- skoskie 8y ago
  He was detained, not arrested. Miranda was unnecessary in this case.
theandrewbailey 8y ago
> Make sure your devices are turned off prior to even leaving for the airport. Security may ask you to turn them back on, not to search them, but to verify that they are actual working devices, and not a bomb.
- abstractbarista 8y ago
  Very good point. The key here is to make sure your devices are all fully encrypted. Feel free to turn them on to prove they are real. But never decrypt. If this results in you missing your flight, so be it.
  - folex 8y ago
    > But never decrypt. If this results in you missing your flight, so be it. Why? Is that more important to stay locked than miss granma's funeral, or more positively, 75th birthday?
    - abstractbarista 8y ago
      Ultimately it is up to each individual to make this call. As for myself, this is a principle I hold above all else.
    - macintux 8y ago
      That’s what makes this all the more malicious. No one wants to miss a flight, and sometimes the consequences are irreparable. Time is the one resource you can’t recover.
    - BenMorganIO 8y ago
      That's certainly a problem. My grandfather was a man who was tasked with killing spies, knew three languages, and out of all of this, I cannot even get him to talk about privacy or security. It appears even he was taught just to shut down on it and say nothing; even on your practices. All the while he taught child soldiers to become child assassin's for the US military. If you're a security person, I suspect his recommendation would be - even though he doesn't understand IT and tech - to say you don't even understand how SSH works or can't tell the difference between encryption and hashing.
cynoclast 8y ago
Friendly reminder that the amendment after the first amendment is for correcting this sort of tyrannical behavior by the government whether it likes it or not.

vageli 8y ago

Border agents may lie about your rights? Is there no Miranda equivalent for this type of detainment?

efficax 8y ago
The border agents are in fact correct. The Supreme court has ruled that US citizens have no constitutional protections against search and seizure or basically anything else on the border of the US: https://www.aclu.org/other/constitution-100-mile-border-zone https://www.aclu.org/other/constitution-100-mile-border-zone Also police are allowed to lie about anything they want during interrogations.
- kemitche 8y ago
  I feel like there's a difference between "lying about the facts of an investigation, including what they know or don't know, during questioning" and "misrepresenting the rights of the accused." The latter feels like a serious problem that should get rectified.
Dangeranger 8y ago
There is not. Customs and Border Patrol operate under a special set of circumstances within ports of entry. You do not have the right to have an attorney present during the interrogation, you can have your personal belongings confiscated, you can be held without charge for up to four hours for any "reasonable" suspicion. These same rules apply within one hundred miles of the United States border. So if you live near the any ocean, Great Lakes, the Mexican border or Canadian border, you live under a different set of rights than the rest of America.
- sangnoir 8y ago
  You forgot "any international airport" on your list of ports of entry used to determine the 100-mile constitution-free zone.
- 0815test 8y ago
  > So if you live near the any ocean, Great Lakes, the Mexican border or Canadian border, you live under a different set of rights than the rest of America. Interesting. You'd think that "real America" was just a turn of phrase - turns out that it isn't, that there is a Real America and that it does care far more about protecting individual rights.
  - lisper 8y ago
    > there is a Real America and that it does care far more about protecting individual rights No, there isn't. Civil rights get trampled regularly outside the 100 mile Constitution-free zone too, just under different pretexts.
- Balgair 8y ago
  Or an international airport. Sorry Denver!
- altmind 8y ago
  > [100-mile] border zone is home to 65.3 percent of the entire U.S. population, and around 75 percent of the U.S. Hispanic population
  - fernandotakai 8y ago
    this ACLU article shows exactly this https://www.aclu.org/other/constitution-100-mile-border-zone https://www.aclu.org/other/constitution-100-mile-border-zone
skoskie 8y ago
He was detained, not arrested. Miranda was unnecessary in this case.

theandrewbailey 8y ago

> Make sure your devices are turned off prior to even leaving for the airport. Security may ask you to turn them back on, not to search them, but to verify that they are actual working devices, and not a bomb.

abstractbarista 8y ago
Very good point. The key here is to make sure your devices are all fully encrypted. Feel free to turn them on to prove they are real. But never decrypt. If this results in you missing your flight, so be it.
- folex 8y ago
  > But never decrypt. If this results in you missing your flight, so be it. Why? Is that more important to stay locked than miss granma's funeral, or more positively, 75th birthday?
  - abstractbarista 8y ago
    Ultimately it is up to each individual to make this call. As for myself, this is a principle I hold above all else.
  - macintux 8y ago
    That’s what makes this all the more malicious. No one wants to miss a flight, and sometimes the consequences are irreparable. Time is the one resource you can’t recover.
  - BenMorganIO 8y ago
    That's certainly a problem. My grandfather was a man who was tasked with killing spies, knew three languages, and out of all of this, I cannot even get him to talk about privacy or security. It appears even he was taught just to shut down on it and say nothing; even on your practices. All the while he taught child soldiers to become child assassin's for the US military. If you're a security person, I suspect his recommendation would be - even though he doesn't understand IT and tech - to say you don't even understand how SSH works or can't tell the difference between encryption and hashing.

cynoclast 8y ago

Friendly reminder that the amendment after the first amendment is for correcting this sort of tyrannical behavior by the government whether it likes it or not.