3 ms·

The increase in minimum wage has definitely culled many under-performing restaurants and businesses in Seattle (essentially the death of middling Teriyaki shops

The increase in minimum wage has definitely culled many under-performing restaurants and businesses in Seattle (essentially the death of middling Teriyaki shops). I appreciate the change, its refreshing to see room in the market that has allowed new & interesting businesses to fill the spaces said under-performing businesses used to fill, providing much needed variety.

gwright 8y ago
So you are OK with all those employees losing their job because the government decided the minimum wage was too low? How do you justify calling those businesses "under-performing"? What is the limiting principle here? How do you intended to evaluate the next proposed government intervention? Is it enough for you that that there are good intentions regardless of the consequences? I propose that we ban all fast food restaurants. They obviously aren't good for us. Let's make room for more interesting businesses. Think of all that valuable real estate that can be repurposed! Next let's limit the amount of soda and alcohol you can purchase or maybe just ban them entirely since they are unhealthy. And let's force all "under-performing" businesses to close shop. Those resources should be redirected to more healthy businesses! Obviously the business owners are incompetent since they are "under-performing". We need to make sure these people aren't burning through their life savings in their "under-performing" business. Carbs are bad for you also, as is meat protein so let's ration the amounts you can purchase or maybe require producers of these products to be licensed and only allow them to produce the "right" quantity of these products as determined by the "government". Where does it end?
- StudentStuff 8y ago
  > So you are OK with all those employees losing their job because the government decided the minimum wage was too low? With the lower end of the job market being flooded with work in Seattle, there isn't much reason to fear. There are many more job openings than workers offering full time as part of a union shop (Fred Meyer & QFC). As to the rest of your whataboutism, I have no desire to interact with that. Its a crappy debate tactic :P
  - gwright 8y ago
    So I did get a little carried away, but the point is that once you've decided the it is OK for the government to regulate at this level, there is no room for complaining when government wants to intervene in anything else. We are in the realm of "trust the government, it knows what is best for us". If it is rational for the government to have the power to set a minimum wage then wouldn't it also be reasonable for the government to decide that all software developers need to be licensed? What is the limiting principle? You accuse me of "whataboutism" as if I am ignoring some limiting principle that is obvious but I don't see any limiting principle being followed at all and I find that alarming.
    - StudentStuff 8y ago
      > The point is that once you've decided the it is OK for the government to regulate at this level, there is no room for complaining when government wants to intervene in anything else. As a society we have already decided that minimum wage is necessary. We have federal, state and now local minimum wages, considering the plethora of locals that actively fought to put these laws in place (and continue to fight to protect them), it stretches believability to call this a government overreach. Going off on your wild tangent about licensed, skilled labor, there has been no movement to have a group like the Bar (licensing lawyers), Engineering Boards (licensing engineers), or even a state license like Cosmetology: https://www.dol.wa.gov/business/cosmetology/get_school.html https://www.dol.wa.gov/business/cosmetology/get_school.html Attempts by state engineering boards thus far have seen few apply for a Professional Engineering license and sit for the requisite exam, to the point that few states offer it anymore (IIRC there are only a few dozen licensed PEs of Software in the states that did have boards that offered it). In this context, what you suggest would be an industry wrecking move that would likely never happen.
      - gwright 8y ago
        > As a society we have already decided that minimum wage is necessary I'm suggesting that the laws are misguided. You can't counter my argument by simply stating "but those are the laws". In particular there is a movement to increase minimum wages and I'm arguing against these proposed changes. When you point to the "plethora ... that put these laws in place" (past decisions) as some sort of proscription on discussion of future decisions you've completely lost me.

gwright 8y ago

So you are OK with all those employees losing their job because the government decided the minimum wage was too low? How do you justify calling those businesses "under-performing"? What is the limiting principle here? How do you intended to evaluate the next proposed government intervention? Is it enough for you that that there are good intentions regardless of the consequences? I propose that we ban all fast food restaurants. They obviously aren't good for us. Let's make room for more interesting businesses. Think of all that valuable real estate that can be repurposed! Next let's limit the amount of soda and alcohol you can purchase or maybe just ban them entirely since they are unhealthy. And let's force all "under-performing" businesses to close shop. Those resources should be redirected to more healthy businesses! Obviously the business owners are incompetent since they are "under-performing". We need to make sure these people aren't burning through their life savings in their "under-performing" business. Carbs are bad for you also, as is meat protein so let's ration the amounts you can purchase or maybe require producers of these products to be licensed and only allow them to produce the "right" quantity of these products as determined by the "government". Where does it end?

StudentStuff 8y ago
> So you are OK with all those employees losing their job because the government decided the minimum wage was too low? With the lower end of the job market being flooded with work in Seattle, there isn't much reason to fear. There are many more job openings than workers offering full time as part of a union shop (Fred Meyer & QFC). As to the rest of your whataboutism, I have no desire to interact with that. Its a crappy debate tactic :P
- gwright 8y ago
  So I did get a little carried away, but the point is that once you've decided the it is OK for the government to regulate at this level, there is no room for complaining when government wants to intervene in anything else. We are in the realm of "trust the government, it knows what is best for us". If it is rational for the government to have the power to set a minimum wage then wouldn't it also be reasonable for the government to decide that all software developers need to be licensed? What is the limiting principle? You accuse me of "whataboutism" as if I am ignoring some limiting principle that is obvious but I don't see any limiting principle being followed at all and I find that alarming.
  - StudentStuff 8y ago
    > The point is that once you've decided the it is OK for the government to regulate at this level, there is no room for complaining when government wants to intervene in anything else. As a society we have already decided that minimum wage is necessary. We have federal, state and now local minimum wages, considering the plethora of locals that actively fought to put these laws in place (and continue to fight to protect them), it stretches believability to call this a government overreach. Going off on your wild tangent about licensed, skilled labor, there has been no movement to have a group like the Bar (licensing lawyers), Engineering Boards (licensing engineers), or even a state license like Cosmetology: https://www.dol.wa.gov/business/cosmetology/get_school.html https://www.dol.wa.gov/business/cosmetology/get_school.html Attempts by state engineering boards thus far have seen few apply for a Professional Engineering license and sit for the requisite exam, to the point that few states offer it anymore (IIRC there are only a few dozen licensed PEs of Software in the states that did have boards that offered it). In this context, what you suggest would be an industry wrecking move that would likely never happen.
    - gwright 8y ago
      > As a society we have already decided that minimum wage is necessary I'm suggesting that the laws are misguided. You can't counter my argument by simply stating "but those are the laws". In particular there is a movement to increase minimum wages and I'm arguing against these proposed changes. When you point to the "plethora ... that put these laws in place" (past decisions) as some sort of proscription on discussion of future decisions you've completely lost me.