5 ms·

>- A few hours ago, I wanted to play a game, but guess what... Steam had a network problem [1] and didn't even let me enter the offline mode. I think Steam is

by x220 8y ago

>- A few hours ago, I wanted to play a game, but guess what... Steam had a network problem [1] and didn't even let me enter the offline mode. I think Steam is a really good (not shitty) DRM enforcer. A very occasional lapse in service is acceptable for entertainment platforms. I use steam because it is actually easier to use their DRM systems than it is to, for example, buy CDs or download individual game installers.

danShumway 8y ago
> A very occasional lapse in service is acceptable for entertainment platforms. I would generally agree that this is acceptable, but it's still a step backwards from Itch and GOG, where my library literally never has a lapse in service. Steam is arguably one of the best DRM solutions out there, but even the best solution on the market still has worse uptime and reliability than a store that just provides users with a bunch of DRM free downloads that they can launch offline whenever they want. Of course, platforms like Itch don't have cloud saves. But Steam's DRM isn't essential for cloud saves, or for the community workshop, or for the storefront, or for the library management tools. The DRM part of it doesn't add any value to the consumer. So while Steam is an excellent product, Steam without DRM would still be a better product than it is right now. That's what people mean when they complain about DRM. You can take a great product and add DRM in a way that doesn't completely break it, but it's still pretty much always a strict downgrade in user experience. People look at services like Steam and think, "yeah, this is acceptable. But it could so easily be really great."
- darkpuma 8y ago
  > "Of course, platforms like Itch don't have cloud saves. But Steam's DRM isn't essential for cloud saves," To this point, GOG supports cloud saves.
callmeal 8y ago
>I think Steam is a really good (not shitty) DRM enforcer. It may be a good DRM enforcer, but as a UI it's terrible and intrusive. There's no way to turn off all those popup messages and game related alerts. I had to give up on steam once they started doing that.
- MayeulC 8y ago
  Well, actually, there is in the steam settings. And to be fair, not every game on Steam comes with DRM attached to it. I have many games I can play without launching Steam itself.
  - brianpgordon 8y ago
    I'm surprised to hear that there are non-DRMed games on Steam. Do you have an example? I thought it was standard that every game released on Steam that doesn't have some awful third-party DRM like Uplay has the Steam launcher code patched into the executable. Valve has some tooling for doing this even to existing legacy exes that can't be rebuilt from source.
    - terlisimo 8y ago
      Kerbal Space Program on Steam is not DRM-ed. I can launch it without Steam running, and it doesn't automatically launch Steam client or anything, the game just starts up.
    - MayeulC 8y ago
      Valve has their DRM solution ([1], "CEG"), but the DRM is fully optional, as it needs to be applied by the game developer to their executable before they upload their game. I don't have good examples in mind right now, and I would need to double check, but I am pretty sure I was able to launch Supreme Commander 2 trough wine directly with the game executable, without launching Steam some time ago. I also recall "Tyranny" doing a free week-end, after which I could still launch the game trough the executable (although steam refused to launch it). That was a Linux game, though, and could be slightly different. I would roughly estimate that more than 20% of my Steam library does not have DRM attached to it. There are a couple lists out there that help find DRM-free games on Steam [2][3][4], etc. Some game developers advertise this as a feature of their game on Steam. For others, it could be an oversight. I find it pretty convenient in any case (example: copy FTL on a USB stick for playing on the go, even without internet connection on an underpowered computer). It also helps with wine. [1]: https://partner.steamgames.com/doc/features/drm https://partner.steamgames.com/doc/features/drm [2]: https://steam.fandom.com/wiki/List_of_DRM-free_games https://steam.fandom.com/wiki/List_of_DRM-free_games [3]: https://pcgamingwiki.com/wiki/The_Big_List_of_DRM-Free_Games_on_Steam https://pcgamingwiki.com/wiki/The_Big_List_of_DRM-Free_Games... [4]: https://store.steampowered.com/curator/7540156-DRM-Free-Games/ https://store.steampowered.com/curator/7540156-DRM-Free-Game...

by x220 8y ago

danShumway 8y ago

> A very occasional lapse in service is acceptable for entertainment platforms. I would generally agree that this is acceptable, but it's still a step backwards from Itch and GOG, where my library literally never has a lapse in service. Steam is arguably one of the best DRM solutions out there, but even the best solution on the market still has worse uptime and reliability than a store that just provides users with a bunch of DRM free downloads that they can launch offline whenever they want. Of course, platforms like Itch don't have cloud saves. But Steam's DRM isn't essential for cloud saves, or for the community workshop, or for the storefront, or for the library management tools. The DRM part of it doesn't add any value to the consumer. So while Steam is an excellent product, Steam without DRM would still be a better product than it is right now. That's what people mean when they complain about DRM. You can take a great product and add DRM in a way that doesn't completely break it, but it's still pretty much always a strict downgrade in user experience. People look at services like Steam and think, "yeah, this is acceptable. But it could so easily be really great."

darkpuma 8y ago
> "Of course, platforms like Itch don't have cloud saves. But Steam's DRM isn't essential for cloud saves," To this point, GOG supports cloud saves.

callmeal 8y ago

>I think Steam is a really good (not shitty) DRM enforcer. It may be a good DRM enforcer, but as a UI it's terrible and intrusive. There's no way to turn off all those popup messages and game related alerts. I had to give up on steam once they started doing that.

MayeulC 8y ago
Well, actually, there is in the steam settings. And to be fair, not every game on Steam comes with DRM attached to it. I have many games I can play without launching Steam itself.
- brianpgordon 8y ago
  I'm surprised to hear that there are non-DRMed games on Steam. Do you have an example? I thought it was standard that every game released on Steam that doesn't have some awful third-party DRM like Uplay has the Steam launcher code patched into the executable. Valve has some tooling for doing this even to existing legacy exes that can't be rebuilt from source.
  - terlisimo 8y ago
    Kerbal Space Program on Steam is not DRM-ed. I can launch it without Steam running, and it doesn't automatically launch Steam client or anything, the game just starts up.
  - MayeulC 8y ago
    Valve has their DRM solution ([1], "CEG"), but the DRM is fully optional, as it needs to be applied by the game developer to their executable before they upload their game. I don't have good examples in mind right now, and I would need to double check, but I am pretty sure I was able to launch Supreme Commander 2 trough wine directly with the game executable, without launching Steam some time ago. I also recall "Tyranny" doing a free week-end, after which I could still launch the game trough the executable (although steam refused to launch it). That was a Linux game, though, and could be slightly different. I would roughly estimate that more than 20% of my Steam library does not have DRM attached to it. There are a couple lists out there that help find DRM-free games on Steam [2][3][4], etc. Some game developers advertise this as a feature of their game on Steam. For others, it could be an oversight. I find it pretty convenient in any case (example: copy FTL on a USB stick for playing on the go, even without internet connection on an underpowered computer). It also helps with wine. [1]: https://partner.steamgames.com/doc/features/drm https://partner.steamgames.com/doc/features/drm [2]: https://steam.fandom.com/wiki/List_of_DRM-free_games https://steam.fandom.com/wiki/List_of_DRM-free_games [3]: https://pcgamingwiki.com/wiki/The_Big_List_of_DRM-Free_Games_on_Steam https://pcgamingwiki.com/wiki/The_Big_List_of_DRM-Free_Games... [4]: https://store.steampowered.com/curator/7540156-DRM-Free-Games/ https://store.steampowered.com/curator/7540156-DRM-Free-Game...