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Dunno what to do about this. I think TSA is a sham and a waste of my money. I think border control is taking my money and using it to abuse people. I don't thin

Dunno what to do about this. I think TSA is a sham and a waste of my money. I think border control is taking my money and using it to abuse people. I don't think it's ok that I can pay to avoid the poor people line at the airport. I've written my reps and the president, I call about once a month, but it has no measurable effect. Smarter people than me have done audits on TSA and published them in famous newspapers to show how useless they are. There's people fighting against CBP locking up asylum seekers but it still happens. Dunno what to do. Partner and I are considering abandoning the USA.

deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
DanFeldman 8y ago
For what its worth, SFO does not use the TSA [0]. The posted article does not mention the TSA at all, only Border Patrol and Customs agents. I've had terrible TSA experiences at other airports, but never a problem with the security at SFO. [0] https://www.miamiherald.com/news/nation-world/national/article224308380.html https://www.miamiherald.com/news/nation-world/national/artic...
- closetohome 8y ago
  CBP is a waste of oxygen too. They're so incompetent the TSA could do their job and we wouldn't notice the difference.
  - 420codebro 8y ago
    Real compelling argument.
zachberger 8y ago
You don't have to pay to bypass the lines. The free "Mobile Passport" app allows you to go into a line is almost as quick as Global Entry.
- geofft 8y ago
  Global Entry gets you two things: a faster line when you re-enter the US, and membership in TSA Pre-Check. For me, Pre-Check is far more useful, because most of my travel is domestic (and it also helps you on the outbound portion of international travel).
  - avarun 8y ago
    Precheck alone is $15 cheaper.
    - imgabe 8y ago
      Or to put it another way, Global Entry is only $15 if you're already buying PreCheck. Global Entry paid for itself the first time I used it when I made a connection after going through customs that I definitely would have missed if I had to wait in the regular line.
- zeveb 8y ago
  I would never, ever install a mobile app from the State on my primary phone account. That just seems like asking for trouble.
  - dsr_ 8y ago
    No need for it to go on your primary phone account. Install it on the cheap phone you take on trips.
- gumby 8y ago
  Only available for US citizens, not GC holders.
timdev2 8y ago
I don't disagree substantively with your sentiments, but you're conflating TSA and CBP. TSA is ostensibly about security on airplanes (or more realistically "security theatre"), and are not law enforcement. You primarily deal with them before getting on an airplane in the US, for nearly all commercial flights (both international and domestic). CBP are law enforcement officers in the customs (contraband, taxes, etc) and immigration (passport control, visas) domains operating at the border. If you're traveling by plane, you primarily deal with them after you disembark from an international flight.
losteric 8y ago
It seems more likely a public perception problem - not enough people know the TSA is a waste of their money, so politicians keep the job subsidy rolling because the alternative is having to explain why they cut "security" funding.
Diederich 8y ago
> Partner and I are considering abandoning the USA. Any thoughts about where you'd move? Some places in the world are better, but it feels like our whole civilization is trending in this bad direction.
- zanny 8y ago
  Its not by coincidence though, TPTB use economic pressure to institute common policy and ideology anywhere they can influence. That is why pretty much any nation with rule of law also adheres to US IP doctrine and has treaties in place to be subject to the will of North America and Europe for extradition, trade, business rights, etc.
- komali2 8y ago
  This isn't the only reason we're considering leaving, so it's not the crux upon which we are filtering choices. Scandinavia is being tossed around as an option, pending further research on each nation, but generally I've been quite inspired by hackers I've met from there and I haven't seen shockingly dystopian news out of the region in a while. Taiwan is on the shortlist mostly because the government is so preoccupied with dancing a knifeblade with the PRC that the citizens have plenty of room to pass extremely liberal policy. Internet fast as hell and the healthcare system is pretty nice as well. Plus, it's crazy cheap. We're always open to suggestions. New Zealand is something we're looking at but are conflicted about.
  - metildaa 8y ago
    Sweden is virtually cashless, with banks & retailers taking a hard line about avoiding cash: https://www.nytimes.com/2018/11/21/business/sweden-cashless-society.html https://www.nytimes.com/2018/11/21/business/sweden-cashless-... Norway is on the same track: https://www.ibtimes.com/norways-biggest-bank-calls-country-stop-using-cash-2276140 https://www.ibtimes.com/norways-biggest-bank-calls-country-s... Additionally, the extradition scheme with Julian Assange (lure him to Sweden, who will deport to the USA) and laws like IPRED (which forced the creation of IPredator.se VPN) are sketchy at best. Co-liability for debts in many European contries is also a very questionable practice, from what I gather there isn't the same kind of credit system, leaving few un-collateralized debts, and roomates can be held liable for debts they didn't incur, co-sign for or otherwise agree to. Makes you really want to think hard about who you split a flat with!
deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
pmoriarty 8y ago
"I don't think it's ok that I can pay to avoid the poor people line at the airport." This reminds me of something Abigail Disney, an heiress to the Disney family fortune, was quoted as saying in an article recently posted to HN. She said that she wished she could pass a law against private jets, "because they enable you to get around a certain reality. You don't have to go through an airport terminal, you don't have to interact, you don't have to be patient, you don't have to be uncomfortable. These are the things that remind us we're human."[1][2] Getting better treatment because you have more power, wealth, or connections is a huge reason for the world being as shitty as it is today. If the rich and powerful had to go through the same hassles and be treated like the rest of do, things would change for the better mighty quick. This sort of maltreatment has been commonly perpetrated against foreigners and certain targeted minorities for decades, and mostly no one outside those groups gives a shit (or not enough to do anything about it). But when someone from your own demographic is affected, suddenly people start to take notice, and if someone rich and powerful gets affected it makes the front page. This reminds me of Martin Niemoller's famous "First they came for the socialists" poem[3], and of how during the 80's some Senator got caught up in a scandal that started because his cellular calls were intercepted by radio, and pretty quickly after that Congress passed laws that forbid commercially available radios from being able to tune in on cellular frequencies or be easily modified to allow them to do so. [1] - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19524325 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19524325 [2] - https://www.thecut.com/2019/03/abigail-disney-has-more-money-than-shell-ever-spend.html https://www.thecut.com/2019/03/abigail-disney-has-more-money... [3] - https://encyclopedia.ushmm.org/content/en/article/martin-niemoeller-first-they-came-for-the-socialists https://encyclopedia.ushmm.org/content/en/article/martin-nie...
- smsm42 8y ago
  > She said that she wished she could pass a law against private jets, /.../ These are the things that remind us we're human. So, US government should pass a law - applying to all US citizens - because it will help a billionaire heiress feel more human. Riiight. > Getting better treatment because you have more power, wealth, or connections I have no power, no connections and no wealth, if you don't count $100 GlobalEntry registration costed me. It saved me countless hours in lines, while I am exhausted from 10+ hour flight. If you call me "rich and powerful" because of that, I'd have no choice but to laugh and marvel at how little is required, apparently, to become part of the Illuminati.

deleted 8y ago

[deleted]

DanFeldman 8y ago

For what its worth, SFO does not use the TSA [0]. The posted article does not mention the TSA at all, only Border Patrol and Customs agents. I've had terrible TSA experiences at other airports, but never a problem with the security at SFO. [0] https://www.miamiherald.com/news/nation-world/national/article224308380.html https://www.miamiherald.com/news/nation-world/national/artic...

closetohome 8y ago
CBP is a waste of oxygen too. They're so incompetent the TSA could do their job and we wouldn't notice the difference.
- 420codebro 8y ago
  Real compelling argument.

zachberger 8y ago

You don't have to pay to bypass the lines. The free "Mobile Passport" app allows you to go into a line is almost as quick as Global Entry.

geofft 8y ago
Global Entry gets you two things: a faster line when you re-enter the US, and membership in TSA Pre-Check. For me, Pre-Check is far more useful, because most of my travel is domestic (and it also helps you on the outbound portion of international travel).
- avarun 8y ago
  Precheck alone is $15 cheaper.
  - imgabe 8y ago
    Or to put it another way, Global Entry is only $15 if you're already buying PreCheck. Global Entry paid for itself the first time I used it when I made a connection after going through customs that I definitely would have missed if I had to wait in the regular line.
zeveb 8y ago
I would never, ever install a mobile app from the State on my primary phone account. That just seems like asking for trouble.
- dsr_ 8y ago
  No need for it to go on your primary phone account. Install it on the cheap phone you take on trips.
gumby 8y ago
Only available for US citizens, not GC holders.

timdev2 8y ago

I don't disagree substantively with your sentiments, but you're conflating TSA and CBP. TSA is ostensibly about security on airplanes (or more realistically "security theatre"), and are not law enforcement. You primarily deal with them before getting on an airplane in the US, for nearly all commercial flights (both international and domestic). CBP are law enforcement officers in the customs (contraband, taxes, etc) and immigration (passport control, visas) domains operating at the border. If you're traveling by plane, you primarily deal with them after you disembark from an international flight.

losteric 8y ago

It seems more likely a public perception problem - not enough people know the TSA is a waste of their money, so politicians keep the job subsidy rolling because the alternative is having to explain why they cut "security" funding.

Diederich 8y ago

> Partner and I are considering abandoning the USA. Any thoughts about where you'd move? Some places in the world are better, but it feels like our whole civilization is trending in this bad direction.

zanny 8y ago
Its not by coincidence though, TPTB use economic pressure to institute common policy and ideology anywhere they can influence. That is why pretty much any nation with rule of law also adheres to US IP doctrine and has treaties in place to be subject to the will of North America and Europe for extradition, trade, business rights, etc.
komali2 8y ago
This isn't the only reason we're considering leaving, so it's not the crux upon which we are filtering choices. Scandinavia is being tossed around as an option, pending further research on each nation, but generally I've been quite inspired by hackers I've met from there and I haven't seen shockingly dystopian news out of the region in a while. Taiwan is on the shortlist mostly because the government is so preoccupied with dancing a knifeblade with the PRC that the citizens have plenty of room to pass extremely liberal policy. Internet fast as hell and the healthcare system is pretty nice as well. Plus, it's crazy cheap. We're always open to suggestions. New Zealand is something we're looking at but are conflicted about.
- metildaa 8y ago
  Sweden is virtually cashless, with banks & retailers taking a hard line about avoiding cash: https://www.nytimes.com/2018/11/21/business/sweden-cashless-society.html https://www.nytimes.com/2018/11/21/business/sweden-cashless-... Norway is on the same track: https://www.ibtimes.com/norways-biggest-bank-calls-country-stop-using-cash-2276140 https://www.ibtimes.com/norways-biggest-bank-calls-country-s... Additionally, the extradition scheme with Julian Assange (lure him to Sweden, who will deport to the USA) and laws like IPRED (which forced the creation of IPredator.se VPN) are sketchy at best. Co-liability for debts in many European contries is also a very questionable practice, from what I gather there isn't the same kind of credit system, leaving few un-collateralized debts, and roomates can be held liable for debts they didn't incur, co-sign for or otherwise agree to. Makes you really want to think hard about who you split a flat with!

deleted 8y ago

[deleted]

pmoriarty 8y ago

"I don't think it's ok that I can pay to avoid the poor people line at the airport." This reminds me of something Abigail Disney, an heiress to the Disney family fortune, was quoted as saying in an article recently posted to HN. She said that she wished she could pass a law against private jets, "because they enable you to get around a certain reality. You don't have to go through an airport terminal, you don't have to interact, you don't have to be patient, you don't have to be uncomfortable. These are the things that remind us we're human."[1][2] Getting better treatment because you have more power, wealth, or connections is a huge reason for the world being as shitty as it is today. If the rich and powerful had to go through the same hassles and be treated like the rest of do, things would change for the better mighty quick. This sort of maltreatment has been commonly perpetrated against foreigners and certain targeted minorities for decades, and mostly no one outside those groups gives a shit (or not enough to do anything about it). But when someone from your own demographic is affected, suddenly people start to take notice, and if someone rich and powerful gets affected it makes the front page. This reminds me of Martin Niemoller's famous "First they came for the socialists" poem[3], and of how during the 80's some Senator got caught up in a scandal that started because his cellular calls were intercepted by radio, and pretty quickly after that Congress passed laws that forbid commercially available radios from being able to tune in on cellular frequencies or be easily modified to allow them to do so. [1] - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19524325 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19524325 [2] - https://www.thecut.com/2019/03/abigail-disney-has-more-money-than-shell-ever-spend.html https://www.thecut.com/2019/03/abigail-disney-has-more-money... [3] - https://encyclopedia.ushmm.org/content/en/article/martin-niemoeller-first-they-came-for-the-socialists https://encyclopedia.ushmm.org/content/en/article/martin-nie...

smsm42 8y ago
> She said that she wished she could pass a law against private jets, /.../ These are the things that remind us we're human. So, US government should pass a law - applying to all US citizens - because it will help a billionaire heiress feel more human. Riiight. > Getting better treatment because you have more power, wealth, or connections I have no power, no connections and no wealth, if you don't count $100 GlobalEntry registration costed me. It saved me countless hours in lines, while I am exhausted from 10+ hour flight. If you call me "rich and powerful" because of that, I'd have no choice but to laugh and marvel at how little is required, apparently, to become part of the Illuminati.