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> By contrast, the Saudis are way the hell over in Saudi Arabia, have very little power over Americans in America, and don't care what Americans in America do.

> By contrast, the Saudis are way the hell over in Saudi Arabia, have very little power over Americans in America, and don't care what Americans in America do. I dont believe this is true, the Saudi's very much care about Americans in America. See their extensive lobbying efforts to effect American policy, and the possible hacking of Jeff Bezos (no way to know if this is real or not). I also think its somewhat of a red harring to say, "since country X doesnt care about us, we're safe from all countries." The difference between a foreign country and my own government is that in some respect I have the ability to change my own countries policy, I can vote people out of office and email my senators (who are supposed to have my well being in mind when making laws), however I have no control whatsoever over a foreign governments decision making and they probably dont care about my well being.

thaumasiotes 8y ago
> in some respect I have the ability to change my own countries policy, I can vote people out of office and email my senators (who are supposed to have my well being in mind when making laws), however I have no control whatsoever over a foreign governments decision making and they probably dont care about my well being. But, again, it doesn't matter that they don't care about your well-being and you can't influence them, because they can't influence you either. Between you and them there is a great space. (The capacity of your government to harm you) minus (your ability to influence your government not to harm you) is much greater than (the capacity of the Saudi government to harm you) minus (your ability to influence the Saudi government not to harm you). The last three quantities are all small.
dclowd9901 8y ago
Sorry, but it just doesn't gel. You are not important. Jeff Bezos might be important, but I really couldn't give two shits if the Saudis know where Jeff Bezos is at all times. They're not going to expend real or political capital to worry about Joe Whomever. Certainly, if you're Jeff Bezos, you may have something to worry about from foreign governments, but you are also only .000000000167~% of people. Forgive me if I don't have the concern to expend on that proportion of people, especially when they are rich enough to buy a country. Contrarily, I am terrified that in the event I am somehow wrongly charged of a crime, or rightly charged of a wrong crime in the United States, that my entire history of movement will be used to exploit me. The FBI and CIA have run many discrediting campaigns in their histories, to speak nothing of the McCarthy era.
- magduf 8y ago
  The main reason to worry about a foreign government knowing too much about you is if they might use it against you. When they're far away, that's extremely unlikely, however if you travel there, it suddenly becomes a real possibility. Bad things have happened to Americans who visited Iran and North Korea, for instance. However, if you don't plan to visit countries like this, this isn't something you should probably worry about. I have no plans to visit either of those countries until they have completely different governments, so I really don't care if they don't like me.
- davvolun 8y ago
  > They're not going to expend real or political capital to worry about Joe Whomever. Except we know that's not entirely accurate. The Russian propaganda effort in 2016 really needed to know a lot about a few hundred thousand or million Joe Whomevers, they did, and they were able to use that information fairly effectively. I think it's arguably easier to get a decent amount of information on a lot of random people which is actionable as opposed to a lot of information on one person that is actionable, regardless of their relative wealth and power. Jeff Bezos actually, recently, makes a good case for this. If you had, for example, a compromising picture on Joe Whomever, it could be useful, used correctly. Jeff Bezos on the other hand, can likely go toe to toe with you. This doesn't discount your argument, but I think we do have something to fear with the complete loss of privacy we now have from both domestic and foreign powers. Note: I'm not interested in having a discussion here about Comey, collusion or any of that, just noting that Joe Whomever does matter, in aggregate.

thaumasiotes 8y ago

> in some respect I have the ability to change my own countries policy, I can vote people out of office and email my senators (who are supposed to have my well being in mind when making laws), however I have no control whatsoever over a foreign governments decision making and they probably dont care about my well being. But, again, it doesn't matter that they don't care about your well-being and you can't influence them, because they can't influence you either. Between you and them there is a great space. (The capacity of your government to harm you) minus (your ability to influence your government not to harm you) is much greater than (the capacity of the Saudi government to harm you) minus (your ability to influence the Saudi government not to harm you). The last three quantities are all small.

dclowd9901 8y ago

Sorry, but it just doesn't gel. You are not important. Jeff Bezos might be important, but I really couldn't give two shits if the Saudis know where Jeff Bezos is at all times. They're not going to expend real or political capital to worry about Joe Whomever. Certainly, if you're Jeff Bezos, you may have something to worry about from foreign governments, but you are also only .000000000167~% of people. Forgive me if I don't have the concern to expend on that proportion of people, especially when they are rich enough to buy a country. Contrarily, I am terrified that in the event I am somehow wrongly charged of a crime, or rightly charged of a wrong crime in the United States, that my entire history of movement will be used to exploit me. The FBI and CIA have run many discrediting campaigns in their histories, to speak nothing of the McCarthy era.

magduf 8y ago
The main reason to worry about a foreign government knowing too much about you is if they might use it against you. When they're far away, that's extremely unlikely, however if you travel there, it suddenly becomes a real possibility. Bad things have happened to Americans who visited Iran and North Korea, for instance. However, if you don't plan to visit countries like this, this isn't something you should probably worry about. I have no plans to visit either of those countries until they have completely different governments, so I really don't care if they don't like me.
davvolun 8y ago
> They're not going to expend real or political capital to worry about Joe Whomever. Except we know that's not entirely accurate. The Russian propaganda effort in 2016 really needed to know a lot about a few hundred thousand or million Joe Whomevers, they did, and they were able to use that information fairly effectively. I think it's arguably easier to get a decent amount of information on a lot of random people which is actionable as opposed to a lot of information on one person that is actionable, regardless of their relative wealth and power. Jeff Bezos actually, recently, makes a good case for this. If you had, for example, a compromising picture on Joe Whomever, it could be useful, used correctly. Jeff Bezos on the other hand, can likely go toe to toe with you. This doesn't discount your argument, but I think we do have something to fear with the complete loss of privacy we now have from both domestic and foreign powers. Note: I'm not interested in having a discussion here about Comey, collusion or any of that, just noting that Joe Whomever does matter, in aggregate.