7 ms·

I think you all must have a different relationship with your government in Canada than US citizens do. None of these agencies are "on my own team". They are al

I think you all must have a different relationship with your government in Canada than US citizens do. None of these agencies are "on my own team". They are all adversaries. I feel far more threatened by US government hacking precisely because I live inside US jurisdiction. If we were to have a difference of opinions, and they were to snoop around in my data and decide they didn't like what they found, well, I'm sitting right here; they could easily ruin my life. What are the Koreans or the Russians or anyone else going to do to me? They're an ocean away and I pose no conceivable threat to them. Harassing me would be expensive and pointless; they're not going to bother.

megous 8y ago
Poison you?
- marssaxman 8y ago
  How much does a clandestine international assassination cost? Why would anyone bother?
  - Godel_unicode 8y ago
    I suspect you're being downvoted because of the below. Spoiler alert: dictators don't follow the same value calculus as normal people for when they should "bother". https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poisoning_of_Alexander_Litvinenko https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poisoning_of_Alexander_Litvi... https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sergei_Skripal https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sergei_Skripal
    - marssaxman 8y ago
      Sure, I'm aware of those cases - but I am not a former Russian military intelligence officer, and I'll wager that nobody else participating in this thread is, either. There is no conceivable reason that any dictator, anywhere in the world, should care enough about any of us to bother spending the enormous amount of money and presumably political capital that would be involved in executing such an attack, so why should we worry about it?
      - megous 8y ago
        That's obviously true (most people will not be targeted). But there's plenty more cases than the last few prominent ones. There are also low level cases that are not reported globally, only in local news. It's ranging from secret services trying to use people to bomb planes and public places, to dissidents active abroad being threatened, beaten up or assassinated by suspected secret services of their origin countries. On source of such activity is Assad's regime in Syria. https://www.middleeastmonitor.com/20190119-is-assad-trying-to-silence-syrian-dissidents-based-overseas/ https://www.middleeastmonitor.com/20190119-is-assad-trying-t... It's uncommon, unlikely, but not that unique.
avn2109 8y ago
+1 for the idea that I (an American citizen) would much rather have Putin or the Chinese compromising my security than most American intelligence.
friedman23 8y ago
>What are the Koreans or the Russians or anyone else going to do to me? Really? You dont understand how Chinese, N. Koreans, and Russian governments can use an American citizens data to blackmail them? Please point me to one instance of the US government blackmailing one of its own citizens or point me to an action that is comparably damaging.
- yongjik 8y ago
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COINTELPRO https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COINTELPRO > COINTELPRO (1956–1971) was a series of covert, and at times illegal,[1][2] projects conducted by the United States Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) aimed at surveilling, infiltrating, discrediting, and disrupting domestic political organizations. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FBI%E2%80%93King_suicide_letter https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FBI%E2%80%93King_suicide_lette... > The letter does not specify precisely what action it is urging King to undertake; King understood the letter as advocating that he commit suicide, ...
  - friedman23 8y ago
    How about in the last 50 years
    - cdf2theworld 8y ago
      We only found out about COINTELPRO because some US citizens got together and burglarized the FBI [1]. What programs are running today that we don't know about yet, because we haven't burglarized them lately? 1. https://monthlyreview.org/2014/09/01/how-we-found-out-about-cointelpro/ https://monthlyreview.org/2014/09/01/how-we-found-out-about-...
    - opportune 8y ago
      You wouldn't hear about the most recent campaigns because they wouldn't be declassified yet.
      - cdf2theworld 8y ago
nickelcitymario 8y ago
I suspect we have a similar % of Canadians who distrust the government as Americans do. I'd count myself among them. However: 1) I maintain that the only reason to fund an intelligence agency is to expect them to perform intelligence activities, and today that requires being the best in the world at black hat infosec. 2) I mistrust my government less than I mistrust yours or Russsia's, because at least my government depends on me for votes and taxes and general compliance with laws.
- Mirioron 8y ago
  >2) I mistrust my government less than I mistrust yours or Russsia's, because at least my government depends on me for votes and taxes and general compliance with laws. But this also means that they have way more reason to lie to you and to mislead you.
  - nickelcitymario 8y ago
    Well, their incentives are different, this is true. I don't know that it's MORE reason. I mean, if they successfully lie to me, they get my taxes. If they successfully lie to you, maybe you don't invade our country.

megous 8y ago

Poison you?

marssaxman 8y ago
How much does a clandestine international assassination cost? Why would anyone bother?
- Godel_unicode 8y ago
  I suspect you're being downvoted because of the below. Spoiler alert: dictators don't follow the same value calculus as normal people for when they should "bother". https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poisoning_of_Alexander_Litvinenko https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poisoning_of_Alexander_Litvi... https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sergei_Skripal https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sergei_Skripal
  - marssaxman 8y ago
    Sure, I'm aware of those cases - but I am not a former Russian military intelligence officer, and I'll wager that nobody else participating in this thread is, either. There is no conceivable reason that any dictator, anywhere in the world, should care enough about any of us to bother spending the enormous amount of money and presumably political capital that would be involved in executing such an attack, so why should we worry about it?
    - megous 8y ago
      That's obviously true (most people will not be targeted). But there's plenty more cases than the last few prominent ones. There are also low level cases that are not reported globally, only in local news. It's ranging from secret services trying to use people to bomb planes and public places, to dissidents active abroad being threatened, beaten up or assassinated by suspected secret services of their origin countries. On source of such activity is Assad's regime in Syria. https://www.middleeastmonitor.com/20190119-is-assad-trying-to-silence-syrian-dissidents-based-overseas/ https://www.middleeastmonitor.com/20190119-is-assad-trying-t... It's uncommon, unlikely, but not that unique.

avn2109 8y ago

+1 for the idea that I (an American citizen) would much rather have Putin or the Chinese compromising my security than most American intelligence.

friedman23 8y ago

>What are the Koreans or the Russians or anyone else going to do to me? Really? You dont understand how Chinese, N. Koreans, and Russian governments can use an American citizens data to blackmail them? Please point me to one instance of the US government blackmailing one of its own citizens or point me to an action that is comparably damaging.

yongjik 8y ago
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COINTELPRO https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COINTELPRO > COINTELPRO (1956–1971) was a series of covert, and at times illegal,[1][2] projects conducted by the United States Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) aimed at surveilling, infiltrating, discrediting, and disrupting domestic political organizations. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FBI%E2%80%93King_suicide_letter https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FBI%E2%80%93King_suicide_lette... > The letter does not specify precisely what action it is urging King to undertake; King understood the letter as advocating that he commit suicide, ...
- friedman23 8y ago
  How about in the last 50 years
  - cdf2theworld 8y ago
    We only found out about COINTELPRO because some US citizens got together and burglarized the FBI [1]. What programs are running today that we don't know about yet, because we haven't burglarized them lately? 1. https://monthlyreview.org/2014/09/01/how-we-found-out-about-cointelpro/ https://monthlyreview.org/2014/09/01/how-we-found-out-about-...
  - opportune 8y ago
    You wouldn't hear about the most recent campaigns because they wouldn't be declassified yet.
    - cdf2theworld 8y ago

nickelcitymario 8y ago

I suspect we have a similar % of Canadians who distrust the government as Americans do. I'd count myself among them. However: 1) I maintain that the only reason to fund an intelligence agency is to expect them to perform intelligence activities, and today that requires being the best in the world at black hat infosec. 2) I mistrust my government less than I mistrust yours or Russsia's, because at least my government depends on me for votes and taxes and general compliance with laws.

Mirioron 8y ago
>2) I mistrust my government less than I mistrust yours or Russsia's, because at least my government depends on me for votes and taxes and general compliance with laws. But this also means that they have way more reason to lie to you and to mislead you.
- nickelcitymario 8y ago
  Well, their incentives are different, this is true. I don't know that it's MORE reason. I mean, if they successfully lie to me, they get my taxes. If they successfully lie to you, maybe you don't invade our country.