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Not that I think anything I say will convince you to my thinking, but I didn't say "the CIA is spying on your phone so that the Russians and Chinese don't have

Not that I think anything I say will convince you to my thinking, but I didn't say "the CIA is spying on your phone so that the Russians and Chinese don't have to". I'm not sure how you got that from what I wrote. In an ideal world, no one can hack my phone. This is why I support Apple and Google and Microsoft and all the others doing their very best to keep my devices as secure as possible. In the worst-possible world, enemy nations have hacked my phone. Because if they've hacked my phone, they've also hacked those of my politicians and military. In the real world, the only way for my country to be able to defend against enemies is to be as-good-as or better than those enemies at hacking my phone. That's why I support it. Because I have a sneaking suspicion that truly awful people are working hard to hack every device out there, and the best infosec defense is a good infosec offense. I don't disagree with you that "if you create a weapon you better be prepared for your enemy to use it against you". But a worse scenario than that is for my enemy to beat me to the punch and I'm standing here with sticks and stones. The thing about an arms race is that once it starts, it's pretty much impossible to get out of. I didn't start the infosec arms race. It would be nice if the race didn't exist at all. But it does. Only a "political doofus" would prefer to pretend otherwise.

kurthr 8y ago
If I thought CIA/NSA hacking was truly white-hat to increase the security of Apple devices, then I would agree. However, 3DES seems to be one of the last times that actual info-sec as opposed to spying (on local citizens) with questionable legal standing (in the US) was the purpose. Sadly, the omniscient and incorruptable rep of the NSA/CIA and associated TLA have been significantly tarnished by Snowden and the current external political interference. This is a crisis, because there are likely people in powerful positions of those orgamizations who do not have their countries interests at heart. Whatever ideology (white nationalist or communist) or external subversion they are not being adequately policed in the current situation. I would prefer they spend their efforts spying externally rather than internally and keeping everyone's private information safe. For example focus on vulns in Huawei 5G base stations or foreign anti-virus installations instead. I think that's safer for us tax payers. Heck, use the social credit system for your own ends, as they did with Tindr.
- nickelcitymario 8y ago
  Apple products are used globally, so even if they do restrict their spying efforts externally, the ability to hack Apple products is aligned with those efforts. They should also absolutely be looking for vulnerabilities in Huawei products. They should be looking for them in any product with significant market share. But there's no reason to think they can't do both. All that aside: Theres a social credit system with Tinder? Am I reading you correct? Tell me more! That sounds way more interesting...
  - kurthr 8y ago
    Apple sales in China are ~10% of the market and falling. In the US (especially high value targets) are ~50% or higher. That's not a good ratio for the US. I suspect the numbers for Russia are more similar to China. Targeting your own people (and not trying to secure the system) isn't a good strategic plan.
    - nickelcitymario 8y ago
      Ok, so it's 10%. Thought experiment: You're a chinese spy. Your enemy is pouring tonnes of effort into hacking the phones made by your own country, but have chosen to put zero effort into hacking those made by theirs. Which phone do you use? Meanwhile, your own people are good at hacking both American and Chinese phones. So in this scenario, the USA's decision to not try to hack products made by American companies leaves them at a decided disadvantage to China's decision to hack all of them.
      - kurthr 8y ago
        Hack the NSO group (or any of your adversaries/allies) and use their zero days... likely a lot cheaper than developing your own or creating new ones for other people to hack and use against you. If nobody else has any, you're not behind :^)

kurthr 8y ago

If I thought CIA/NSA hacking was truly white-hat to increase the security of Apple devices, then I would agree. However, 3DES seems to be one of the last times that actual info-sec as opposed to spying (on local citizens) with questionable legal standing (in the US) was the purpose. Sadly, the omniscient and incorruptable rep of the NSA/CIA and associated TLA have been significantly tarnished by Snowden and the current external political interference. This is a crisis, because there are likely people in powerful positions of those orgamizations who do not have their countries interests at heart. Whatever ideology (white nationalist or communist) or external subversion they are not being adequately policed in the current situation. I would prefer they spend their efforts spying externally rather than internally and keeping everyone's private information safe. For example focus on vulns in Huawei 5G base stations or foreign anti-virus installations instead. I think that's safer for us tax payers. Heck, use the social credit system for your own ends, as they did with Tindr.

nickelcitymario 8y ago
Apple products are used globally, so even if they do restrict their spying efforts externally, the ability to hack Apple products is aligned with those efforts. They should also absolutely be looking for vulnerabilities in Huawei products. They should be looking for them in any product with significant market share. But there's no reason to think they can't do both. All that aside: Theres a social credit system with Tinder? Am I reading you correct? Tell me more! That sounds way more interesting...
- kurthr 8y ago
  Apple sales in China are ~10% of the market and falling. In the US (especially high value targets) are ~50% or higher. That's not a good ratio for the US. I suspect the numbers for Russia are more similar to China. Targeting your own people (and not trying to secure the system) isn't a good strategic plan.
  - nickelcitymario 8y ago
    Ok, so it's 10%. Thought experiment: You're a chinese spy. Your enemy is pouring tonnes of effort into hacking the phones made by your own country, but have chosen to put zero effort into hacking those made by theirs. Which phone do you use? Meanwhile, your own people are good at hacking both American and Chinese phones. So in this scenario, the USA's decision to not try to hack products made by American companies leaves them at a decided disadvantage to China's decision to hack all of them.
    - kurthr 8y ago
      Hack the NSO group (or any of your adversaries/allies) and use their zero days... likely a lot cheaper than developing your own or creating new ones for other people to hack and use against you. If nobody else has any, you're not behind :^)