3 ms·

I think I'd like a software union. Especially for fields like medical devices and those new autonomous cars. What are some of the anti-software-union arguments?

cr0sh 8y ago
> What are some of the anti-software-union arguments? Part of it, I believe, revolves around salary/pay levels - there is a very large gap between the lowest and highest; this isn't completely based on geographical location, though the higher pay does skew toward SV of course. Most developers, though, are fine with this disparity - that might be a "temporarily embarrassed millionaire" problem, but for those willing to take the risks and chances, and in some cases move long distances - if they are good, they really can boost their salary quite a bit if they happen to join up with the right company, at the right time. I think part of it also has to do with certification; would a union require it? Would we all have to get or have either a CS degree, and/or some kind of actual certification from some standards body? Who would those be? IEEE? ACM? Microsoft? Red Hat? All of the above? What about those of us who've been doing this for 20+ years, and only have a high school diploma in some cases, yet earn 6 figures at a FAANG or such? Do we grandfather those people in, or do they find themselves out of work (maybe with a stipend from the union?) until they get their certification? Those are just a few possible questions - maybe reasons - that could be considered "anti-union sentiment". I think one way or the other, though, we're (as a group) are going to be forced into either a union and/or certification measures, much like professional engineers, whether we like it or not. Probably sooner than we think, mostly due to the devices and such you mention, and their very public problems being aired. The question is only whether we'll have any real input into how it'll look, and right now, we seem to be collectively ignoring it. What I find amazing is that it hasn't happened already; history-wise, one would have thought that the whole THERAC-25 thing would have forced it, but somehow it didn't.
- morenoh149 8y ago
  I think it makes sense to start small. Engineers opt into such an org. Pay dues. A pension is setup. Some leadership is voted in to run the org based on interest and bandwidth. The union shines when it can do collective bargaining and ensure minimum salary benefits for certain roles. Certification could be offered for very specialized roles as subject matter experts join and build a curriculum.

cr0sh 8y ago

> What are some of the anti-software-union arguments? Part of it, I believe, revolves around salary/pay levels - there is a very large gap between the lowest and highest; this isn't completely based on geographical location, though the higher pay does skew toward SV of course. Most developers, though, are fine with this disparity - that might be a "temporarily embarrassed millionaire" problem, but for those willing to take the risks and chances, and in some cases move long distances - if they are good, they really can boost their salary quite a bit if they happen to join up with the right company, at the right time. I think part of it also has to do with certification; would a union require it? Would we all have to get or have either a CS degree, and/or some kind of actual certification from some standards body? Who would those be? IEEE? ACM? Microsoft? Red Hat? All of the above? What about those of us who've been doing this for 20+ years, and only have a high school diploma in some cases, yet earn 6 figures at a FAANG or such? Do we grandfather those people in, or do they find themselves out of work (maybe with a stipend from the union?) until they get their certification? Those are just a few possible questions - maybe reasons - that could be considered "anti-union sentiment". I think one way or the other, though, we're (as a group) are going to be forced into either a union and/or certification measures, much like professional engineers, whether we like it or not. Probably sooner than we think, mostly due to the devices and such you mention, and their very public problems being aired. The question is only whether we'll have any real input into how it'll look, and right now, we seem to be collectively ignoring it. What I find amazing is that it hasn't happened already; history-wise, one would have thought that the whole THERAC-25 thing would have forced it, but somehow it didn't.

morenoh149 8y ago
I think it makes sense to start small. Engineers opt into such an org. Pay dues. A pension is setup. Some leadership is voted in to run the org based on interest and bandwidth. The union shines when it can do collective bargaining and ensure minimum salary benefits for certain roles. Certification could be offered for very specialized roles as subject matter experts join and build a curriculum.