10 ms·

I think the comments in this thread are somewhat missing the point. Its not so much an issue that bounty hunters can track you anywhere, its that anyone with a

I think the comments in this thread are somewhat missing the point. Its not so much an issue that bounty hunters can track you anywhere, its that anyone with a little money can access the same databases. Given the actions of the US/foreign intelligence agencies over the last couple decades, it would be foolish to think that they wouldnt be keeping their own copy of all this data. Even if you're OK with your own government having access to your current location at all times, would you also be OK with the Saudies or the Russian FSB knowing this? I think we're all past the point where the idea of individually targeted misinformation campaigns are out of the realm of scifi and are very much a real thing. Location data alone is enough to create an extremely accurate demographic/psychological profile for a person.

ScottFree 8y ago
I'm more worried about stalkers, psychotic exes or angry twitter mobs being able to buy this data.
- wedn3sday 8y ago
  This is a good point. The parents of Children killed at Sandy Hook have been persistently harassed online by Alex Jones listeners including death threats and doxing. Imagine how much worse it would be if they could just publish their exact GPS coordinates.
  - ScottFree 8y ago
    What's stopping them? You can buy this information right now.
    - wedn3sday 8y ago
      Fortunately for our collective sanity InfoWars listeners ~arent famously bright people.~ havent yet learned of this harassment technique.
      - ScottFree 8y ago
        I'm new here. Doesn't this sort of comment violate the guidelines?
        AckSyn 8y ago
        Yes, it does.
        ScottFree 8y ago
        And yet, that comment is upvoted and your comment is downvoted. Maybe I don't want to become a part of this community after all. edit: then again, every single comment of yours appears to be dead? edit2: what's with the lack of transparency?
        AckSyn 8y ago
        dead? ah i see what you mean. I must have pissed off some admin.
        deleted 8y ago
        [deleted]
        deleted 8y ago
        [deleted]
        Zuider 8y ago
        Not if it is intended purely as a question. It is true that the phrase "what's stopping them?" could be interpreted as an incitement, but this is Hacker News not one of the grubbier corners of the internet, and the first interpretation is surely the correct one.
      - semi-extrinsic 8y ago
        I will refrain from commenting on the particulars as they relate to this InfoWars of which you speak, but in general it is one of the facts upon which our society's relative safety rests, that those who wish to do harm, to deceive and to pursue malice are frequently not those amongst us most blessed with the gifts of intellect.
minikites 8y ago
>would you also be OK with the Saudies or the Russian FSB knowing this I think almost everyone has more to fear from someone they know (who is out to get them) than foreign governments. There's not a lot of Edward Snowdens in the general public.
- wedn3sday 8y ago
  There are a whole lot of US government employees with access to sensitive information who dont want their real time location available to a hostile foreign intelligence agency. I was lucky enough to start my current job about two months after the entire database of cleared employee personal information (name, DOB, SSN, home address, background check investigation report) was stolen by the Chinese, so this kind of thing is near and dear to my heart. Additionally the FSB could very well use this data in their persistent campaign of psychological warfare against the entire country. They're smart people, and if they're not using this resource already they probably will by the time the 2020 election heats up.
  - gdy 8y ago
    "their persistent campaign of psychological warfare against the entire country" Lol The Russians are coming!
    - craftyguy 8y ago
      Nobody is expecting the Russians to invade. I think the concern is that they could easily cause widespread unrest here by pitting special interest groups against each other.
      - wedn3sday 8y ago
        See the recent Worldwide Threat Assessment Report [0] page 7, titled "ONLINE INFLUENCE OPERATIONS AND ELECTION INTERFERENCE." Our adversaries and strategic competitors probably already are looking to the 2020 US elections as an opportunity to advance their interests. More broadly, US adversaries and strategic competitors almost certainly will use online influence operations to try to weaken democratic institutions, undermine US alliances and partnerships, and shape policy outcomes in the United States and elsewhere. [0] https://www.dni.gov/files/ODNI/documents/2019-ATA-SFR---SSCI.pdf https://www.dni.gov/files/ODNI/documents/2019-ATA-SFR---SSCI...
thaumasiotes 8y ago
> Even if you're OK with your own government having access to your current location at all times, would you also be OK with the Saudies or the Russian FSB knowing this? I see this sentiment a lot, and I've never understood the thought process that leads to it. Your own government is the worst possible party to have information on you, because they have a lot of power to do things to you. They are also much more likely to care about your activities or other things that concern you. By contrast, the Saudis are way the hell over in Saudi Arabia, have very little power over Americans in America, and don't care what Americans in America do. In the immortal words of Achilles: > I came not warring here for any ill the Trojans had done me. I have no quarrel with them. They have not raided my cattle nor my horses, nor cut down my harvests on the rich plains of Phthia; for between me and them there is a great space, both mountain and sounding sea. You can change whether the Saudis care about what you're doing, if you try hard. But you can't bring them up to the level where they care more or have more power than your native government already does.
- craftyguy 8y ago
  Your analogy to Achilles and the Trojan war is a bit silly. The whole premise of that war was that the Trojans went to Greece and abducted an important citizen.
  - thaumasiotes 8y ago
    That's not a great way to state the premise of the war. "The Trojans" had no intention to do anything. Paris went to Sparta, but not Phthia, and committed a crime there. How did the Trojans feel about that? > the son of Atreus strode among the throng, looking everywhere for Alexander, and no man, neither of the Trojans nor of the allies, could find him. If they had seen him they were in no mind to hide him, for they all of them hated him as they did death itself. Achilles is totally correct that, as far as he's concerned, Troy hasn't aggrieved him in any way, and would have a hard time doing it if it wanted to.
- pradn 8y ago
  1) A government collects and stores all location data about the citizens of another country. 2) Citizen of another country attains a powerful position in business, politics, etc. 3) Use data from years ago to extort, blackmail, influence, etc. The internet and smartphones have been around for long enough for this to be a reality for today's leaders. Adversarial foreign governments could choose to exercise surveillance and storage power over citizens of another country. That's one of many reasons why access to location data should be locked up tightly. The analogy with Achilles doesn't hold up because it is possible to act at a distance in today's connected world.
ataturk 8y ago
My take on all this is that a lot of regular people are going to have one giant wakeup call at some point along the way here. Because the whole "if you're not doing anything wrong..." bit isn't going to prevent the excesses and the abuses anymore than it did in any Iron Curtain countries. Big tech is going to destroy our lives if we allow it to and it's already getting stifling hot in here as far as the excesses. And yet, we have 20+ million illegals in the US that nobody can get a line on. Yeah, right.
masonic 8y ago
Even if you're OK with your own government having access to your current location at all times I'd say most Americans have voluntarily installed multiple apps on their devices that leak location far and wide.

ScottFree 8y ago

I'm more worried about stalkers, psychotic exes or angry twitter mobs being able to buy this data.

wedn3sday 8y ago
This is a good point. The parents of Children killed at Sandy Hook have been persistently harassed online by Alex Jones listeners including death threats and doxing. Imagine how much worse it would be if they could just publish their exact GPS coordinates.
- ScottFree 8y ago
  What's stopping them? You can buy this information right now.
  - wedn3sday 8y ago
    Fortunately for our collective sanity InfoWars listeners ~arent famously bright people.~ havent yet learned of this harassment technique.
    - ScottFree 8y ago
      I'm new here. Doesn't this sort of comment violate the guidelines?
      - AckSyn 8y ago
        Yes, it does.
        ScottFree 8y ago
        And yet, that comment is upvoted and your comment is downvoted. Maybe I don't want to become a part of this community after all. edit: then again, every single comment of yours appears to be dead? edit2: what's with the lack of transparency?
        AckSyn 8y ago
        dead? ah i see what you mean. I must have pissed off some admin.
        deleted 8y ago
        [deleted]
        deleted 8y ago
        [deleted]
      - Zuider 8y ago
        Not if it is intended purely as a question. It is true that the phrase "what's stopping them?" could be interpreted as an incitement, but this is Hacker News not one of the grubbier corners of the internet, and the first interpretation is surely the correct one.
    - semi-extrinsic 8y ago
      I will refrain from commenting on the particulars as they relate to this InfoWars of which you speak, but in general it is one of the facts upon which our society's relative safety rests, that those who wish to do harm, to deceive and to pursue malice are frequently not those amongst us most blessed with the gifts of intellect.

minikites 8y ago

>would you also be OK with the Saudies or the Russian FSB knowing this I think almost everyone has more to fear from someone they know (who is out to get them) than foreign governments. There's not a lot of Edward Snowdens in the general public.

wedn3sday 8y ago
There are a whole lot of US government employees with access to sensitive information who dont want their real time location available to a hostile foreign intelligence agency. I was lucky enough to start my current job about two months after the entire database of cleared employee personal information (name, DOB, SSN, home address, background check investigation report) was stolen by the Chinese, so this kind of thing is near and dear to my heart. Additionally the FSB could very well use this data in their persistent campaign of psychological warfare against the entire country. They're smart people, and if they're not using this resource already they probably will by the time the 2020 election heats up.
- gdy 8y ago
  "their persistent campaign of psychological warfare against the entire country" Lol The Russians are coming!
  - craftyguy 8y ago
    Nobody is expecting the Russians to invade. I think the concern is that they could easily cause widespread unrest here by pitting special interest groups against each other.
    - wedn3sday 8y ago
      See the recent Worldwide Threat Assessment Report [0] page 7, titled "ONLINE INFLUENCE OPERATIONS AND ELECTION INTERFERENCE." Our adversaries and strategic competitors probably already are looking to the 2020 US elections as an opportunity to advance their interests. More broadly, US adversaries and strategic competitors almost certainly will use online influence operations to try to weaken democratic institutions, undermine US alliances and partnerships, and shape policy outcomes in the United States and elsewhere. [0] https://www.dni.gov/files/ODNI/documents/2019-ATA-SFR---SSCI.pdf https://www.dni.gov/files/ODNI/documents/2019-ATA-SFR---SSCI...

thaumasiotes 8y ago

> Even if you're OK with your own government having access to your current location at all times, would you also be OK with the Saudies or the Russian FSB knowing this? I see this sentiment a lot, and I've never understood the thought process that leads to it. Your own government is the worst possible party to have information on you, because they have a lot of power to do things to you. They are also much more likely to care about your activities or other things that concern you. By contrast, the Saudis are way the hell over in Saudi Arabia, have very little power over Americans in America, and don't care what Americans in America do. In the immortal words of Achilles: > I came not warring here for any ill the Trojans had done me. I have no quarrel with them. They have not raided my cattle nor my horses, nor cut down my harvests on the rich plains of Phthia; for between me and them there is a great space, both mountain and sounding sea. You can change whether the Saudis care about what you're doing, if you try hard. But you can't bring them up to the level where they care more or have more power than your native government already does.

craftyguy 8y ago
Your analogy to Achilles and the Trojan war is a bit silly. The whole premise of that war was that the Trojans went to Greece and abducted an important citizen.
- thaumasiotes 8y ago
  That's not a great way to state the premise of the war. "The Trojans" had no intention to do anything. Paris went to Sparta, but not Phthia, and committed a crime there. How did the Trojans feel about that? > the son of Atreus strode among the throng, looking everywhere for Alexander, and no man, neither of the Trojans nor of the allies, could find him. If they had seen him they were in no mind to hide him, for they all of them hated him as they did death itself. Achilles is totally correct that, as far as he's concerned, Troy hasn't aggrieved him in any way, and would have a hard time doing it if it wanted to.
pradn 8y ago
1) A government collects and stores all location data about the citizens of another country. 2) Citizen of another country attains a powerful position in business, politics, etc. 3) Use data from years ago to extort, blackmail, influence, etc. The internet and smartphones have been around for long enough for this to be a reality for today's leaders. Adversarial foreign governments could choose to exercise surveillance and storage power over citizens of another country. That's one of many reasons why access to location data should be locked up tightly. The analogy with Achilles doesn't hold up because it is possible to act at a distance in today's connected world.

ataturk 8y ago

My take on all this is that a lot of regular people are going to have one giant wakeup call at some point along the way here. Because the whole "if you're not doing anything wrong..." bit isn't going to prevent the excesses and the abuses anymore than it did in any Iron Curtain countries. Big tech is going to destroy our lives if we allow it to and it's already getting stifling hot in here as far as the excesses. And yet, we have 20+ million illegals in the US that nobody can get a line on. Yeah, right.

masonic 8y ago

Even if you're OK with your own government having access to your current location at all times I'd say most Americans have voluntarily installed multiple apps on their devices that leak location far and wide.