4 ms·

The amount of time it takes him to put this into Excel is miniscule compared to just having a conversation with a single woman. What's really driving his succes

by sedachv 16y ago

The amount of time it takes him to put this into Excel is miniscule compared to just having a conversation with a single woman. What's really driving his success is his persistence (it's a numbers game). The problem with "bringing pick up artist techniques to the masses" is the same as the guy/girl ratio notification tools. We're very poor in making comparisons based on absolute factors, so we make our decisions based on relative comparisons. This includes the decision of who, if anyone, to sleep with. It's a zero-sum game. Anyone who realizes this realizes that it's in his best interest not to tell everyone about his pick-up technique or the large number of girls in the bar he's at, and anyone who doesn't probably doesn't have the social intelligence to sleep with those girls anyway (that's where the absolute factors come into play). But I hear Mystery is a multi-millionaire, so there's probably a market for such a tool.

yummyfajitas 16y ago
I agree that data entry + excel time is not a lot. But coming up with sketch material and gathering enough data points for an A/B test to be statistically useful is a huge investment. Success = P x A, with P = probability of success and A = # of approaches. When A is large, it's a no-brainer to gather data and crunch numbers to improve P. Unfortunately, you can't improve P without a large A since your numbers won't be statistically significant. A tool which crowdsources the data gathering/content creation and delivers modest improvements in P would certainly be worth $2.99 to me.
- sedachv 16y ago
  That's totally missing the point of the zero-sum thing. I watched a few episodes of the VH1 show The Pick-up Artist (reality TV where Mystery teaches a bunch of guys to pick up girls). They constantly used corny lines like "I need a female opinion on _" Any girl who has seen the show is going to respond with "OMG are you one of those pick-up guys?" if she hears a similar line (if she really likes you then she'll ignore it and pretend to play along, but then you could have said anything and it would have worked). I hear that's exactly what happened with all the lines/techniques in Neil Strauss' book The Game. The whole point of lines is to show the girl you are articulate and intelligent enough to have a good sense of humor. If everyone starts using the same ones girls will catch on, and the lines will stop working.
  - yummyfajitas 16y ago
    You don't believe that a sufficiently intelligent computer system can coordinate to reduce overuse of lines? I.e., deliver line X to 10,000 geographically separated people? As for dating/pickup, I don't believe it's zero sum. It's not a competition for a fixed set of prizes, i.e. 5 girls at the bar, all of whom will go home with someone. f she really likes you then she'll ignore it and pretend to play along, but then you could have said anything and it would have worked I have it on good authority (read: "spreadsheet pickup guy", who's name I'm hiding for obvious reasons) that this is false, and conversion rates can vary 20-30% (sometimes more) based on approach and profile.
    - sedachv 16y ago
      "You don't believe that a sufficiently intelligent computer system can coordinate to reduce overuse of lines? I.e., deliver line X to 10,000 geographically separated people?" Pickup tricks are like financial arbitrage. Once enough people learn about what works and do it, it stops working. I'm not saying that this idea won't make money (like I said, Mystery seems to have done well for himself selling advice), I'm saying it likely won't accomplish its stated goal of getting you laid more often by giving you the "winning" pick-up lines. Any effect is more likely than not going to come through playing the numbers game. "As for dating/pickup, I don't believe it's zero sum. It's not a competition for a fixed set of prizes, i.e. 5 girls at the bar, all of whom will go home with someone." It is in that no one wants to make a bad choice. People (at least girls) would rather not sleep with anyone than sleep with someone who is relatively less attractive than the possible alternatives. It's the paradox of choice. "I have it on good authority (read: "spreadsheet pickup guy", who's name I'm hiding for obvious reasons) that this is false, and conversion rates can vary 20-30% (sometimes more) based on approach and profile." Obviously there are some things you can do that will turn a girl off less than others. But how does that negate my point? Girls will sleep with guys they think are hot even if they don't think those guys are particularly intelligent or humorous.

by sedachv 16y ago

yummyfajitas 16y ago

I agree that data entry + excel time is not a lot. But coming up with sketch material and gathering enough data points for an A/B test to be statistically useful is a huge investment. Success = P x A, with P = probability of success and A = # of approaches. When A is large, it's a no-brainer to gather data and crunch numbers to improve P. Unfortunately, you can't improve P without a large A since your numbers won't be statistically significant. A tool which crowdsources the data gathering/content creation and delivers modest improvements in P would certainly be worth $2.99 to me.

sedachv 16y ago
That's totally missing the point of the zero-sum thing. I watched a few episodes of the VH1 show The Pick-up Artist (reality TV where Mystery teaches a bunch of guys to pick up girls). They constantly used corny lines like "I need a female opinion on _" Any girl who has seen the show is going to respond with "OMG are you one of those pick-up guys?" if she hears a similar line (if she really likes you then she'll ignore it and pretend to play along, but then you could have said anything and it would have worked). I hear that's exactly what happened with all the lines/techniques in Neil Strauss' book The Game. The whole point of lines is to show the girl you are articulate and intelligent enough to have a good sense of humor. If everyone starts using the same ones girls will catch on, and the lines will stop working.
- yummyfajitas 16y ago
  You don't believe that a sufficiently intelligent computer system can coordinate to reduce overuse of lines? I.e., deliver line X to 10,000 geographically separated people? As for dating/pickup, I don't believe it's zero sum. It's not a competition for a fixed set of prizes, i.e. 5 girls at the bar, all of whom will go home with someone. f she really likes you then she'll ignore it and pretend to play along, but then you could have said anything and it would have worked I have it on good authority (read: "spreadsheet pickup guy", who's name I'm hiding for obvious reasons) that this is false, and conversion rates can vary 20-30% (sometimes more) based on approach and profile.
  - sedachv 16y ago
    "You don't believe that a sufficiently intelligent computer system can coordinate to reduce overuse of lines? I.e., deliver line X to 10,000 geographically separated people?" Pickup tricks are like financial arbitrage. Once enough people learn about what works and do it, it stops working. I'm not saying that this idea won't make money (like I said, Mystery seems to have done well for himself selling advice), I'm saying it likely won't accomplish its stated goal of getting you laid more often by giving you the "winning" pick-up lines. Any effect is more likely than not going to come through playing the numbers game. "As for dating/pickup, I don't believe it's zero sum. It's not a competition for a fixed set of prizes, i.e. 5 girls at the bar, all of whom will go home with someone." It is in that no one wants to make a bad choice. People (at least girls) would rather not sleep with anyone than sleep with someone who is relatively less attractive than the possible alternatives. It's the paradox of choice. "I have it on good authority (read: "spreadsheet pickup guy", who's name I'm hiding for obvious reasons) that this is false, and conversion rates can vary 20-30% (sometimes more) based on approach and profile." Obviously there are some things you can do that will turn a girl off less than others. But how does that negate my point? Girls will sleep with guys they think are hot even if they don't think those guys are particularly intelligent or humorous.