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From the summary: Exercise has a large and significant antidepressant effect in people with depression (including MDD). Our data strongly support the claim tha

by rofo1 8y ago

From the summary: Exercise has a large and significant antidepressant effect in people with depression (including MDD). Our data strongly support the claim that exercise is an evidence-based treatment for depression. MDD I assume it means major depressive disorder From personal experience, being (extremely) fit made me feel better about myself. Just based on the fact that I can do a lot of things (sprint, hike, some cool gymnastic moves, solid flexibility, can run good distances) makes me feel better about myself. Also, once you get in a good shape, it's really not difficult to stay in it. Contrary to what anyone says. But you have to do it "the right way": change your approach to exercising, eating, sleeping, etc. There will be things that you have to sacrifice. I recommend anyone struggling with "bad thoughts" to at least consider this - give it a couple of months, see how it plays out.

diminoten 8y ago
Eh, it's always hard to get in and stay in shape, just like it's always hard to create and maintain any habit. Not all of us ever get "used" to a pattern of behavior, so there's always a fight to maintain anything resembling a pattern.
- collyw 8y ago
  Personally I just cycle everywhere. It's the fastest way to get around the city where I live (if you are willing to bend the traffic rules a bit). I am aware that it won't work for everyone, but I am surprised at how few people cycle. There is a bit of a motivational hump to get over, but once you are over it (forcing yourself to cycle half an hour for as week maybe?) then it doesn't seem like a problem at all.
  - Insanity 8y ago
    Could be a regional thing. Where I live, cycling is for many people the standard way to go around. But then, most people are students around this city. There are quite a few cities in Belgium and the Netherlands that promote cycling though. :)
    - przmk 8y ago
      Only the northern part of Belgium though (Flanders). The rest of the country has quite poor infrastructure for cycling, especially when compared to the Netherlands. I would love to cycle to work in Brussels but I do not feel comfortable doing so.
      - a_imho 8y ago
        I don't know about Brussels specifically, but if you are worried about the volume of the traffic you can probably try cycling in off hours, mainly at night, and/or using the pavements liberally to build up the routine.
        Insanity 8y ago
        I'd not like to cycle in Brussels either. Mostly cause of the (car) traffic there. Neither would I feel that comfortable at night in certain parts of Brussels :D
  - saiya-jin 8y ago
    I have rather unpopular opinion about biking in most cities (it doesn't cover bike friendly places like Netherlands/Belgium/Denmark, but your usual place where bikers share roads and sidewalks with rest of us) - bikers often behave like assholes, especially but not only to pedestrians. Aggressive, arrogant, utterly ignoring red lights, zooming fast through crowds walking on pedestrian crossings. I had few near-hits myself when biker went maybe 10cm from me, doing 30+kmh, not even slowing down although he saw me. Also have seen couple of incidents of biker hitting pedestrian hard only because biker was a total idiot and tried to get somewhere 5 seconds sooner. Fast bike hitting some old granny doesn't end well for her in any possible case. Fiancee who is a doctor had recently a case where biker hit pedestrian in same way, ignoring red light. Guy in his 40s was cca OK when brought to emergency room, but went into coma quickly due to internal bleeding in the brain. Dead within a week. Maybe its this idiotic childish 'french' culture that I am exposed to here in Geneva (when you see them drive in France you know what I mean), but it really seems biking in the city brings out the worst out of people. Biking elsewhere, in the nature, forests, unpaved roads, fields etc is something completely different, that I enjoy very much.
- wjnc 8y ago
  There is a clear difference between becoming fit and staying fit, no? Overweight depressed and no prior sports history to fit can easily take a year of hard work. Maintaining basic fitness (not big gym bill or 21k in 90 min fit, but regular happy fit) and a healthy BMI is really just adapting lifestyle and not even having to work out. Walk to the groceries, walk during lunch and f.e. when calling with friends. All true that these last examples are all adaptations of a healthy lifestyle, which I expect to be harder to adapt to for those with mental health issues.
- llamataboot 8y ago
  In my experience that's not true with a general level of fitness. I would say that if you get into reasonable shape and have a habit of moving daily that after 3-6 months it becomes hard /not/ to move. ie; you feel antsy and sluggish if you haven't moved for a few days and feel in need of a long walk, etc. The default state of humans is not sedentary.
  - diminoten 8y ago
    My point is your experience isn't universal, not everyone is like you. Some people simply don't have it as easy when forming and maintaining a habit.
tapland 8y ago
Getting 'fit' is very far away for a lot of people, MDD or not. That's not a reasonable aim for positive effects on depression. If we can get positive effects from regular exercise, it's great. If it requires patients to get 'fit', it's really not. > Also, once you get in a good shape, it's really not difficult to stay in it. Contrary to what anyone says. How old are you? This: "change your approach to exercising, eating, sleeping, etc. There will be things that you have to sacrifice" is one of the hardest things to do in life.
- rofo1 8y ago
  > That's not a reasonable aim for positive effects on depression. If we can get positive effects from regular exercise, it's great. If it requires patients to get 'fit', it's really not. In my opinion, if you are not fit, then it won't have as good effect as it would otherwise. That might be.. jarring a little bit, but I don't think an obese person can workout 30 minutes and then call it a day, and believe he'll reap the benefits. Maybe I am wrong, but I don't think it is so. So the goal should always be to get in great shape, the best you can get (in your circumstances, I mean; age/cardiovascular fitness/joint health etc.) Our default mode should be being fit and everything else an abomination. > This: "change your approach to exercising, eating, sleeping, etc. There will be things that you have to sacrifice" is one of the hardest things to do in life. Sorry, I just fail to realize how can someone consciously think that this is one of the hardest thing in life. We have really way different view of life, then. To me, it takes some work, but it's not even hard. It's just something you do for couple of hours in your day, that's all. And the best part? There's no downside for you. Better health, mental and physical, longevity, mood, etc..
  - tapland 8y ago
    > That might be.. jarring a little bit, but I don't think an obese person can workout 30 minutes and then call it a day, and believe he'll reap the benefits. Then it's probably not helpful to treat depression though. At least not as a prescribed action. Send it back to "things everyone should do with rewards down the line". > We have really way different view of life, then. To me, it takes some work, but it's not even hard. It's just something you do for couple of hours in your day, that's all. Again. How old are you? This seems to just be a complete lack of experience being around depressed or unhealthy people, and a complete lack of understanding why anyone would find themselves in bad health. Weight issues and bad health are not only a result of people not wanting to put in effort. Just try looking at long term weight loss success rates or something. Your ideas are not based in reality here.
arendtio 8y ago
> But you have to do it "the right way": change your approach to exercising, eating, sleeping, etc. Regarding 'the right way', thinking in systems/implementations/solutions rather than goals/KPIs might help (at least it does for me): https://blog.dilbert.com/2013/11/18/goals-vs-systems/ https://blog.dilbert.com/2013/11/18/goals-vs-systems/
dagaci 8y ago
Not to mention that being extremely fit or just trying to be means that your mind is being occupied by being busy, people will act more positively around you and you will also tend to sleep better. Despite appearances we humans are much more animal than intellect, so that means the simple physical act will much more easily inform our mood and sentiment than just thinking alone. Extra care should be taken with diet and rest to avoid lowering the immune system by over stressing the body too quickly. You don't want to catch a cold and interrupt your momentum.

by rofo1 8y ago

diminoten 8y ago

Eh, it's always hard to get in and stay in shape, just like it's always hard to create and maintain any habit. Not all of us ever get "used" to a pattern of behavior, so there's always a fight to maintain anything resembling a pattern.

collyw 8y ago
Personally I just cycle everywhere. It's the fastest way to get around the city where I live (if you are willing to bend the traffic rules a bit). I am aware that it won't work for everyone, but I am surprised at how few people cycle. There is a bit of a motivational hump to get over, but once you are over it (forcing yourself to cycle half an hour for as week maybe?) then it doesn't seem like a problem at all.
- Insanity 8y ago
  Could be a regional thing. Where I live, cycling is for many people the standard way to go around. But then, most people are students around this city. There are quite a few cities in Belgium and the Netherlands that promote cycling though. :)
  - przmk 8y ago
    Only the northern part of Belgium though (Flanders). The rest of the country has quite poor infrastructure for cycling, especially when compared to the Netherlands. I would love to cycle to work in Brussels but I do not feel comfortable doing so.
    - a_imho 8y ago
      I don't know about Brussels specifically, but if you are worried about the volume of the traffic you can probably try cycling in off hours, mainly at night, and/or using the pavements liberally to build up the routine.
      - Insanity 8y ago
        I'd not like to cycle in Brussels either. Mostly cause of the (car) traffic there. Neither would I feel that comfortable at night in certain parts of Brussels :D
- saiya-jin 8y ago
  I have rather unpopular opinion about biking in most cities (it doesn't cover bike friendly places like Netherlands/Belgium/Denmark, but your usual place where bikers share roads and sidewalks with rest of us) - bikers often behave like assholes, especially but not only to pedestrians. Aggressive, arrogant, utterly ignoring red lights, zooming fast through crowds walking on pedestrian crossings. I had few near-hits myself when biker went maybe 10cm from me, doing 30+kmh, not even slowing down although he saw me. Also have seen couple of incidents of biker hitting pedestrian hard only because biker was a total idiot and tried to get somewhere 5 seconds sooner. Fast bike hitting some old granny doesn't end well for her in any possible case. Fiancee who is a doctor had recently a case where biker hit pedestrian in same way, ignoring red light. Guy in his 40s was cca OK when brought to emergency room, but went into coma quickly due to internal bleeding in the brain. Dead within a week. Maybe its this idiotic childish 'french' culture that I am exposed to here in Geneva (when you see them drive in France you know what I mean), but it really seems biking in the city brings out the worst out of people. Biking elsewhere, in the nature, forests, unpaved roads, fields etc is something completely different, that I enjoy very much.
wjnc 8y ago
There is a clear difference between becoming fit and staying fit, no? Overweight depressed and no prior sports history to fit can easily take a year of hard work. Maintaining basic fitness (not big gym bill or 21k in 90 min fit, but regular happy fit) and a healthy BMI is really just adapting lifestyle and not even having to work out. Walk to the groceries, walk during lunch and f.e. when calling with friends. All true that these last examples are all adaptations of a healthy lifestyle, which I expect to be harder to adapt to for those with mental health issues.
llamataboot 8y ago
In my experience that's not true with a general level of fitness. I would say that if you get into reasonable shape and have a habit of moving daily that after 3-6 months it becomes hard /not/ to move. ie; you feel antsy and sluggish if you haven't moved for a few days and feel in need of a long walk, etc. The default state of humans is not sedentary.
- diminoten 8y ago
  My point is your experience isn't universal, not everyone is like you. Some people simply don't have it as easy when forming and maintaining a habit.

tapland 8y ago

Getting 'fit' is very far away for a lot of people, MDD or not. That's not a reasonable aim for positive effects on depression. If we can get positive effects from regular exercise, it's great. If it requires patients to get 'fit', it's really not. > Also, once you get in a good shape, it's really not difficult to stay in it. Contrary to what anyone says. How old are you? This: "change your approach to exercising, eating, sleeping, etc. There will be things that you have to sacrifice" is one of the hardest things to do in life.

rofo1 8y ago
> That's not a reasonable aim for positive effects on depression. If we can get positive effects from regular exercise, it's great. If it requires patients to get 'fit', it's really not. In my opinion, if you are not fit, then it won't have as good effect as it would otherwise. That might be.. jarring a little bit, but I don't think an obese person can workout 30 minutes and then call it a day, and believe he'll reap the benefits. Maybe I am wrong, but I don't think it is so. So the goal should always be to get in great shape, the best you can get (in your circumstances, I mean; age/cardiovascular fitness/joint health etc.) Our default mode should be being fit and everything else an abomination. > This: "change your approach to exercising, eating, sleeping, etc. There will be things that you have to sacrifice" is one of the hardest things to do in life. Sorry, I just fail to realize how can someone consciously think that this is one of the hardest thing in life. We have really way different view of life, then. To me, it takes some work, but it's not even hard. It's just something you do for couple of hours in your day, that's all. And the best part? There's no downside for you. Better health, mental and physical, longevity, mood, etc..
- tapland 8y ago
  > That might be.. jarring a little bit, but I don't think an obese person can workout 30 minutes and then call it a day, and believe he'll reap the benefits. Then it's probably not helpful to treat depression though. At least not as a prescribed action. Send it back to "things everyone should do with rewards down the line". > We have really way different view of life, then. To me, it takes some work, but it's not even hard. It's just something you do for couple of hours in your day, that's all. Again. How old are you? This seems to just be a complete lack of experience being around depressed or unhealthy people, and a complete lack of understanding why anyone would find themselves in bad health. Weight issues and bad health are not only a result of people not wanting to put in effort. Just try looking at long term weight loss success rates or something. Your ideas are not based in reality here.

arendtio 8y ago

> But you have to do it "the right way": change your approach to exercising, eating, sleeping, etc. Regarding 'the right way', thinking in systems/implementations/solutions rather than goals/KPIs might help (at least it does for me): https://blog.dilbert.com/2013/11/18/goals-vs-systems/ https://blog.dilbert.com/2013/11/18/goals-vs-systems/

dagaci 8y ago

Not to mention that being extremely fit or just trying to be means that your mind is being occupied by being busy, people will act more positively around you and you will also tend to sleep better. Despite appearances we humans are much more animal than intellect, so that means the simple physical act will much more easily inform our mood and sentiment than just thinking alone. Extra care should be taken with diet and rest to avoid lowering the immune system by over stressing the body too quickly. You don't want to catch a cold and interrupt your momentum.