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The first programming language I learned was Microsoft BASIC on an MSX. I then moved on to learn Z80 assembler, Pascal, X86 assembler, C, Scheme, Java, Python,

The first programming language I learned was Microsoft BASIC on an MSX. I then moved on to learn Z80 assembler, Pascal, X86 assembler, C, Scheme, Java, Python, Haskell, Standard ML, Objective C, Rust, and whatnot. I believe I'm a pretty good programmer. Claiming that learning BASIC as the first language somehow permanently broke they way I think about programming is bullshit.

TheOtherHobbes 8y ago
In the UK an entire generation of professional developers started with BASIC on toy machines like the Spectrum, before moving on to professional languages, often after a degree. Calling it bullshit is actually being far too polite about it.
- C1sc0cat 8y ago
  Not to be negative but I would mention "a bad workman blames their tools ".
  - goto11 8y ago
    To be fair, all good craftsmen care a lot about their tools. But gatekeeping other people based on the tools they use rather then the results they achieve is just snobbishness.
simonh 8y ago
He was really just having a dig at some colleagues, it wasn't meant as a serious proposition. In any case he's not talking about productive practical programming. I learned the ropes on BASIC in the 80s as well and it was a fine introduction to programming as a practical task but e.g. is in no way any kind of preparation to understand theoretical computer science topics like algorithm verification and provably correct programs. They're different worlds and that's really all he was saying. He'd get students come into his classes who thought they already knew all about programming and hit a brick wall when they had to deal with the level of analytical rigour his classes required. I hit this problem myself when I try to learn functional programming. I've had a go at Haskell a few times and got nowhere. I had a similar problem getting my head around object oriented programming. Switching theoretical domains can be a significant issue.

TheOtherHobbes 8y ago

In the UK an entire generation of professional developers started with BASIC on toy machines like the Spectrum, before moving on to professional languages, often after a degree. Calling it bullshit is actually being far too polite about it.

C1sc0cat 8y ago
Not to be negative but I would mention "a bad workman blames their tools ".
- goto11 8y ago
  To be fair, all good craftsmen care a lot about their tools. But gatekeeping other people based on the tools they use rather then the results they achieve is just snobbishness.

simonh 8y ago

He was really just having a dig at some colleagues, it wasn't meant as a serious proposition. In any case he's not talking about productive practical programming. I learned the ropes on BASIC in the 80s as well and it was a fine introduction to programming as a practical task but e.g. is in no way any kind of preparation to understand theoretical computer science topics like algorithm verification and provably correct programs. They're different worlds and that's really all he was saying. He'd get students come into his classes who thought they already knew all about programming and hit a brick wall when they had to deal with the level of analytical rigour his classes required. I hit this problem myself when I try to learn functional programming. I've had a go at Haskell a few times and got nowhere. I had a similar problem getting my head around object oriented programming. Switching theoretical domains can be a significant issue.