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> "2) this idea that more speech is the antidote, needs to end." Just as you are hopelessly to stop the distribution of fake news, you cannot make people like

> "2) this idea that more speech is the antidote, needs to end." Just as you are hopelessly to stop the distribution of fake news, you cannot make people like me stop pointing this out. The problem of fake news is not limited to India, and the existence of free sources of real news, such as the BBC, is not sufficient. We need more sources of free news, written from a wide variety of perspectives from a wide variety of organizations, spread over a wide variety of mediums. The BBC is not always the first to break a story, nor does it always have the best presentation of a story. Sometimes an organization like the NYTs does it faster and better, but the distribution of that story is limited by the paywall. Tearing down paywalls and diversifying distribution channels is the only realistic way of combating fake news. Anything else is a pipe dream.

jobigoud 8y ago
The set of possible false news is infinitely bigger than the set of real news.
- darkpuma 8y ago
  All the more reason to remove barriers to access of real news.
  - intended 8y ago
    This worsens the problem by assuming that lack of “news” is the problem. Historically news media was already in trouble because of the news cycle. News had to bleed to get advertising to survive. Underlying that was the limited short term attention span of our species. As long as there is only limited mental space for ideas, a fierce competition must exist to take up that space. And to win, ideas that engage our hindbrain win. Sex sells, if it bleeds it leads. Tribalism. This was the case before the internet. The internet through this into over drive. Now we can’t even keep up. More content? People are already saturated. There are hundreds of Indian news channels. But there’s only a few formats. A few talking heads yelling about the same issues and pandering to emotions. A model learnt around the world. —————- Don’t think that There’s things such as real news - sadly today it’s just “content.” Look at what happens when day - ravish Kumar, makes a great show. He loses. Because Arnab Goswami with his theatrics and fake screaming is more enaging. Facts don’t win hearts and advertising time. Most people don’t read articles before responding on social media. They read headlines. Discussing news is discussing a battle already lost. And if this sounds bleak - It’s actually hard to encapsulate how truly hopeless the current scenario seems to be.
intended 8y ago
That’s my point. It’s not news and as long as you keep thinking on those lines we will not be able to help people we care about. Stop thinking about news. Think of everything as content. You are on HN because you like the content. The fact that it’s true and tangible are bonuses - they match your interest. The content on some websites in 2014 that the “govt was going to create a database on ‘hate speech’” is also content. It got picked up and spun into “news”. It wasn’t true. But it still got spread and there was eventually a congressional hearing on it or something in America. The solutions you are discussing are irrelevant. They aren’t aware of findings that show that one of the fundamental problems with social media is human attention span. By adding more sources you only add more competiton to that limited resource. This means that you get a winner take all system as people de clutter their feeds and listen to only the most viral and engaging content. ———— I am saying that tonunderstand the world today, you have to turn things on their head. There’s no such thing as “news”. Everything is effectively fake news for the larger population. Real news just has the benefit of being from people trying to closely mirror reality. This is the ontological error pervasive in discussions on HN. The real horror is what we actually face - that “real news” is essentially the same as “fake news” to a large amount of the population. They couldn’t make out the difference on their own. Dress up “content” correctly and it’s “news”.

jobigoud 8y ago

The set of possible false news is infinitely bigger than the set of real news.

darkpuma 8y ago
All the more reason to remove barriers to access of real news.
- intended 8y ago
  This worsens the problem by assuming that lack of “news” is the problem. Historically news media was already in trouble because of the news cycle. News had to bleed to get advertising to survive. Underlying that was the limited short term attention span of our species. As long as there is only limited mental space for ideas, a fierce competition must exist to take up that space. And to win, ideas that engage our hindbrain win. Sex sells, if it bleeds it leads. Tribalism. This was the case before the internet. The internet through this into over drive. Now we can’t even keep up. More content? People are already saturated. There are hundreds of Indian news channels. But there’s only a few formats. A few talking heads yelling about the same issues and pandering to emotions. A model learnt around the world. —————- Don’t think that There’s things such as real news - sadly today it’s just “content.” Look at what happens when day - ravish Kumar, makes a great show. He loses. Because Arnab Goswami with his theatrics and fake screaming is more enaging. Facts don’t win hearts and advertising time. Most people don’t read articles before responding on social media. They read headlines. Discussing news is discussing a battle already lost. And if this sounds bleak - It’s actually hard to encapsulate how truly hopeless the current scenario seems to be.

intended 8y ago

That’s my point. It’s not news and as long as you keep thinking on those lines we will not be able to help people we care about. Stop thinking about news. Think of everything as content. You are on HN because you like the content. The fact that it’s true and tangible are bonuses - they match your interest. The content on some websites in 2014 that the “govt was going to create a database on ‘hate speech’” is also content. It got picked up and spun into “news”. It wasn’t true. But it still got spread and there was eventually a congressional hearing on it or something in America. The solutions you are discussing are irrelevant. They aren’t aware of findings that show that one of the fundamental problems with social media is human attention span. By adding more sources you only add more competiton to that limited resource. This means that you get a winner take all system as people de clutter their feeds and listen to only the most viral and engaging content. ———— I am saying that tonunderstand the world today, you have to turn things on their head. There’s no such thing as “news”. Everything is effectively fake news for the larger population. Real news just has the benefit of being from people trying to closely mirror reality. This is the ontological error pervasive in discussions on HN. The real horror is what we actually face - that “real news” is essentially the same as “fake news” to a large amount of the population. They couldn’t make out the difference on their own. Dress up “content” correctly and it’s “news”.