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I normally live in Europe. At the moment I'm in Baltimore. The city's downtown area (around the inner harbor) is perfectly walkable. Nearby DC is also perfectly

I normally live in Europe. At the moment I'm in Baltimore. The city's downtown area (around the inner harbor) is perfectly walkable. Nearby DC is also perfectly walkable, while driving is a nightmare. These two cities should be well connected by rail but they're not. People would drive to a parking lot beside a metro station and get into the city that way. Two cities can only be linked effectively by rail when there aren't stops between them. That's impossible in America, where suburban areas are the political battlegrounds while cities are single-party fiefdoms.

deleted 8y ago
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jcranmer 8y ago
Washington-Baltimore is actually a very good connection by rail--you'll have a train at least once an hour--except that the station for Baltimore is in the wrong location. Baltimore Penn Station is located far to the north of the city, well outside the Inner Harbor that's going to be the center of tourism and visitors. What happened is that, historically, Baltimore-Washington was mainly served by the B&O, whose Baltimore station would have been right next to Inner Harbor (Camden Yards is essentially built on old railroad property). When passenger service was consolidated into Amtrak, the Northeast Corridor instead chose to use Pennsylvania Railroad trackage instead of B&O from DC to NYC, and the freight trackage in the corridor consolidated onto the B&O tracks instead. The resulting residual commuter rail line has the standard commuter rail/freight rail politics going on that limits the number of trains that can transit the route.
- chungleong 8y ago
  Neither the metro or the lightrail reaches Penn. I don't know who designed the routes. Better connections between DC and BWI would better link the cities but they can't even maintain a bus line. Meanwhile, there's a billion dollar for the Silver line...
  - brianzelip 8y ago
    You’re wrong about the Baltimore light rail not reaching Penn Station. See the Camden Yards - Penn Station light rail line, it runs a few times/hour. https://www.mta.maryland.gov/schedule https://www.mta.maryland.gov/schedule
    - chungleong 8y ago
      Half a mile walk is not what I'd calling reaching. You can't even see Penn from the light-rail stop.
      - brianzelip 8y ago
        Sounds like you're referring to the University of Baltimore/MICA light rail stop[0], where you have to get off if heading south or heading north but not on the Penn line, to catch the 'Penn Station - Camden Yards' line. I mean, it's in the name of the light rail line...it lets you off right at the station[1]. [0] https://www.google.com/maps/place/University+of+Baltimore+-+Mt.+Royal/@39.3043811,-76.6223318,16.25z/data=!4m8!1m2!2m1!1suniversity+of+baltimore+light+rail+stop!3m4!1s0x0:0x9072928becd4baf5!8m2!3d39.3071109!4d-76.6200028?hl=en https://www.google.com/maps/place/University+of+Baltimore+-+... [1] https://www.google.com/maps/place/Penn+Station/@39.3071436,-76.6194336,17.75z/data=!4m8!1m2!2m1!1sbaltimore+light+rail+penn+station+stop!3m4!1s0x0:0x9d61d7100956ce66!8m2!3d39.3078052!4d-76.6161103?hl=en https://www.google.com/maps/place/Penn+Station/@39.3071436,-...
        chungleong 8y ago
        Oh, my bad. I don't know how I managed to live a year in the city and not know about the second line. I've only ridden the BWI/Hunt Valley trains.
        brianzelip 8y ago
        The real criticism of the light rail is that there's really _only_ one line, north to south. And the (part subway) metro train serves a similar route, NW to east side of downtown.[0] 99% of all the light rail "lines" ride the same track. The Penn-Camden "line" veers off the main tracks right at that Mt Royal stop (MICA/UB), and only goes to Penn, then back to the main line at Mt Royal, then headed to Camden Yards. It's probably the least common "line" to see. [0] http://www.urbanrail.net/am/balt/baltimore.htm http://www.urbanrail.net/am/balt/baltimore.htm
- masklinn 8y ago
  > Washington-Baltimore is actually a very good connection by rail--you'll have a train at least once an hour That's really not a lot, especially between major cities.
  - fyfy18 8y ago
    For comparison, in the UK there are around 8 trains per hour during peak times between London and Cambridge (around twice the distance of DC-Baltimore). I'd imagine there are cities that have even more per hour in central Europe.
    - mikekchar 8y ago
      Although according to Google Washington DC has 700,000 people and Baltimore 600,000. Probably a more realistic comparison would be Bristol and Southampton/Portsmouth where there is realistically 1 train an hour (technically 2, but the second one has a change and runs 8 minutes after the first one). Comparing trains from London is not really fair because virtually every train in the south ends up in London eventually. Somewhat tragically, I once tried to take a train from Watford to visit Hatfield House, some 14 miles away. I think it took me 3 hours getting in and out of London :-)
      - ovi256 8y ago
        >Washington DC has 700,000 people and Baltimore 600,000 You really have to look at the metro population.
        mikekchar 8y ago
        London has a population of over 8 million and 14 million for the metro population. I was trying to pick something that had even close to a similar population density of of Washington Baltimore in the UK. Comparing to London is like comparing to NYC.
      - masklinn 8y ago
        > Although according to Google Washington DC has 700,000 people and Baltimore 600,000. Probably a more realistic comparison would be Bristol and Southampton/Portsmouth where there is realistically 1 train an hour (technically 2, but the second one has a change and runs 8 minutes after the first one). OTOH between Macon (pop 34000) and Lyon (pop 500000) there is up to 4 trains / hour at commute times (1 an hour otherwise), over a slightly longer distance.
- twic 8y ago
  I don't know this area at all, but apparently there is a commuter rail service (as mentioned) from Camden Yards, which still has a station, to Washington. But it takes an hour and a quarter, where the Amtrak train takes 45 minutes. This is depressingly familiar situation in the UK too (not sure about the rest of Europe). Usually, it's not politics that prevent more useful connections being made, but a lack of investment to do the necessary small bits of engineering.
- adrianN 8y ago
  Tokyo-Kyoto runs every twenty minutes, Berlin-Hamburg every 30.
- hackeraccount 8y ago
  Baltimore resident who commutes by train here. There's actually a line that goes to DC right by inner harbor- the Camden Line as opposed to Penn Line at Penn station. As a consequence trains from Baltimore run a bit more often then once an hour - though I don't take Camden Line (It's for losers) so I don't know what the overlap is exactly.
  - smush 8y ago
    > I don't take Camden Line (It's for losers) Why is this? Full of tourists?
    - hackeraccount 8y ago
      Oh, who knows. I've always thought that because the line is shared with freight rail - CSX - and it seems like it gets delayed more.

deleted 8y ago

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jcranmer 8y ago

Washington-Baltimore is actually a very good connection by rail--you'll have a train at least once an hour--except that the station for Baltimore is in the wrong location. Baltimore Penn Station is located far to the north of the city, well outside the Inner Harbor that's going to be the center of tourism and visitors. What happened is that, historically, Baltimore-Washington was mainly served by the B&O, whose Baltimore station would have been right next to Inner Harbor (Camden Yards is essentially built on old railroad property). When passenger service was consolidated into Amtrak, the Northeast Corridor instead chose to use Pennsylvania Railroad trackage instead of B&O from DC to NYC, and the freight trackage in the corridor consolidated onto the B&O tracks instead. The resulting residual commuter rail line has the standard commuter rail/freight rail politics going on that limits the number of trains that can transit the route.

chungleong 8y ago
Neither the metro or the lightrail reaches Penn. I don't know who designed the routes. Better connections between DC and BWI would better link the cities but they can't even maintain a bus line. Meanwhile, there's a billion dollar for the Silver line...
- brianzelip 8y ago
  You’re wrong about the Baltimore light rail not reaching Penn Station. See the Camden Yards - Penn Station light rail line, it runs a few times/hour. https://www.mta.maryland.gov/schedule https://www.mta.maryland.gov/schedule
  - chungleong 8y ago
    Half a mile walk is not what I'd calling reaching. You can't even see Penn from the light-rail stop.
    - brianzelip 8y ago
      Sounds like you're referring to the University of Baltimore/MICA light rail stop[0], where you have to get off if heading south or heading north but not on the Penn line, to catch the 'Penn Station - Camden Yards' line. I mean, it's in the name of the light rail line...it lets you off right at the station[1]. [0] https://www.google.com/maps/place/University+of+Baltimore+-+Mt.+Royal/@39.3043811,-76.6223318,16.25z/data=!4m8!1m2!2m1!1suniversity+of+baltimore+light+rail+stop!3m4!1s0x0:0x9072928becd4baf5!8m2!3d39.3071109!4d-76.6200028?hl=en https://www.google.com/maps/place/University+of+Baltimore+-+... [1] https://www.google.com/maps/place/Penn+Station/@39.3071436,-76.6194336,17.75z/data=!4m8!1m2!2m1!1sbaltimore+light+rail+penn+station+stop!3m4!1s0x0:0x9d61d7100956ce66!8m2!3d39.3078052!4d-76.6161103?hl=en https://www.google.com/maps/place/Penn+Station/@39.3071436,-...
      - chungleong 8y ago
        Oh, my bad. I don't know how I managed to live a year in the city and not know about the second line. I've only ridden the BWI/Hunt Valley trains.
        brianzelip 8y ago
        The real criticism of the light rail is that there's really _only_ one line, north to south. And the (part subway) metro train serves a similar route, NW to east side of downtown.[0] 99% of all the light rail "lines" ride the same track. The Penn-Camden "line" veers off the main tracks right at that Mt Royal stop (MICA/UB), and only goes to Penn, then back to the main line at Mt Royal, then headed to Camden Yards. It's probably the least common "line" to see. [0] http://www.urbanrail.net/am/balt/baltimore.htm http://www.urbanrail.net/am/balt/baltimore.htm
masklinn 8y ago
> Washington-Baltimore is actually a very good connection by rail--you'll have a train at least once an hour That's really not a lot, especially between major cities.
- fyfy18 8y ago
  For comparison, in the UK there are around 8 trains per hour during peak times between London and Cambridge (around twice the distance of DC-Baltimore). I'd imagine there are cities that have even more per hour in central Europe.
  - mikekchar 8y ago
    Although according to Google Washington DC has 700,000 people and Baltimore 600,000. Probably a more realistic comparison would be Bristol and Southampton/Portsmouth where there is realistically 1 train an hour (technically 2, but the second one has a change and runs 8 minutes after the first one). Comparing trains from London is not really fair because virtually every train in the south ends up in London eventually. Somewhat tragically, I once tried to take a train from Watford to visit Hatfield House, some 14 miles away. I think it took me 3 hours getting in and out of London :-)
    - ovi256 8y ago
      >Washington DC has 700,000 people and Baltimore 600,000 You really have to look at the metro population.
      - mikekchar 8y ago
        London has a population of over 8 million and 14 million for the metro population. I was trying to pick something that had even close to a similar population density of of Washington Baltimore in the UK. Comparing to London is like comparing to NYC.
    - masklinn 8y ago
      > Although according to Google Washington DC has 700,000 people and Baltimore 600,000. Probably a more realistic comparison would be Bristol and Southampton/Portsmouth where there is realistically 1 train an hour (technically 2, but the second one has a change and runs 8 minutes after the first one). OTOH between Macon (pop 34000) and Lyon (pop 500000) there is up to 4 trains / hour at commute times (1 an hour otherwise), over a slightly longer distance.
twic 8y ago
I don't know this area at all, but apparently there is a commuter rail service (as mentioned) from Camden Yards, which still has a station, to Washington. But it takes an hour and a quarter, where the Amtrak train takes 45 minutes. This is depressingly familiar situation in the UK too (not sure about the rest of Europe). Usually, it's not politics that prevent more useful connections being made, but a lack of investment to do the necessary small bits of engineering.
adrianN 8y ago
Tokyo-Kyoto runs every twenty minutes, Berlin-Hamburg every 30.
hackeraccount 8y ago
Baltimore resident who commutes by train here. There's actually a line that goes to DC right by inner harbor- the Camden Line as opposed to Penn Line at Penn station. As a consequence trains from Baltimore run a bit more often then once an hour - though I don't take Camden Line (It's for losers) so I don't know what the overlap is exactly.
- smush 8y ago
  > I don't take Camden Line (It's for losers) Why is this? Full of tourists?
  - hackeraccount 8y ago
    Oh, who knows. I've always thought that because the line is shared with freight rail - CSX - and it seems like it gets delayed more.